Name a player you think is DONE

[Scoots]

It's still early in the season, but the Cousins prediction is looking pretty good right now. He just doesn't look like the same player, and it's not like the opportunity for more minutes aren't there for him. I'd honestly drop him in a heartbeat for a decent young backup center who could run the floor and block shots.

The jury is still out on John Wall, but missing his fourth straight game tonight with "knee soreness" definitely isn't a good look. When he has played, I feel like he's been damn good, and he should be better paired next to Oladipo than Harden. But if the dude can't give the Rockets at least 45-50 games this season, I'm not sure what good it does.

Cousins could probably be a decent center in the NBA 20 years ago in this state, he just doesn't fit modern offenses anymore. When he was with the Warriors they used him as the center in the 2nd unit and played much slower with him dominating the ball on offense.

[dhopisthename]

Marc Gasol

The idea of him starting for the Lakers or any team is laughable at this point.

Mike Conley

Done at least as a starter. He stepped up big time in the playoffs, but is likely in the bottom 10 starting PGs for the regular season now. Best suited for a bench role until playoff time like Dragić.

have to call you out on Conley as least so far he has been amazing for us. 16/6/4 doesn't really show how great he has been for us.

[beasted86]

have to call you out on Conley as least so far he has been amazing for us. 16/6/4 doesn't really show how great he has been for us.

If I were the Jazz coaches I'd still try and save him for the playoffs if possible.

Dragić has easily been Miami's best guard, but I don't want him playing more than 25 minutes a night, and preferably not starting if he doesn't have to.

But you're right. Doesn't appear to be done yet.

[TylerSL]

He's only played in eight games, but I'm concerned for Russell Westbrook. He's only 32, but he has been having a terrible year so far. While he is averaging 18 pts, 10.6 asts, 9.5 rebs/game, he's averaging over 5 turnovers and his shooting numbers are completely atrocious (.370/.306/.641).

He's actually shooting less than 40% from within the 3 point line (.391), a career low, and just last year he shot .514 from the same area. He's getting to the line at the lowest rate of his career, just 4.9 FTA/game, and his FT% is the lowest it's ever been. For the first time in his career, he's averaging more turnovers than free throw attempts. That's bad.

His advanced stats have suffered because of all those facts. His PER is sitting at a career low of 12.4 (league average is 15.0), and he actually has negative win shares for the first time in his career. He looks like a bad player right now. Again, it's only eight games and he could be fine, but it's been real bad so far.

John Wall has also played in eight games and while he doesn't look particularly great, he's been noticeably better than Westbrook and he missed the last two years. In the last 18 months, Westbrook has been traded twice in PG swaps and it looks like the team who acquired him got the worse player both times. That's really really really bad. Considering that this is a former league MVP, I think Westbrook's play is definitely concerning.

[TylerSL]

I feel like I should move that whole stupid debate into a different thread.

Marc Gasol (and Pau if he gets the Lakers to bite)
Korver
Haslam
Tyson Chandler
Crawford

I'd have said Carmelo last off-season but he was okay last year.

Yeah UD is DONE. He should have retired four years ago and got into coaching. They keep him around as a team captain, but he could just as easily be a very respected assistant coach. He's wasted a roster spot for years now.

[mightybosstone]

He's only played in eight games, but I'm concerned for Russell Westbrook. He's only 32, but he has been having a terrible year so far. While he is averaging 18 pts, 10.6 asts, 9.5 rebs/game, he's averaging over 5 turnovers and his shooting numbers are completely atrocious (.370/.306/.641).

He's actually shooting less than 40% from within the 3 point line (.391), a career low, and just last year he shot .514 from the same area. He's getting to the line at the lowest rate of his career, just 4.9 FTA/game, and his FT% is the lowest it's ever been. For the first time in his career, he's averaging more turnovers than free throw attempts. That's bad.

His advanced stats have suffered because of all those facts. His PER is sitting at a career low of 12.4 (league average is 15.0), and he actually has negative win shares for the first time in his career. He looks like a bad player right now. Again, it's only eight games and he could be fine, but it's been real bad so far.

John Wall has also played in eight games and while he doesn't look particularly great, he's been noticeably better than Westbrook and he missed the last two years. In the last 18 months, Westbrook has been traded twice in PG swaps and it looks like the team who acquired him got the worse player both times. That's really really really bad. Considering that this is a former league MVP, I think Westbrook's play is definitely concerning.

I think we're past the point where Westbrook is seen as a star in this league anymore or even where I would call his poor performance "concerning." Dude is not a plus basketball player anymore and hasn't been one for years. He had a magical 2-month stretch for Houston last year where he played out of his mind pre-COVID, but he came back in the bubble and was straight garbage. I see that stretch as an anomaly until he proves me wrong.

Westbrook is not somebody who should be considered a No. 1 or No. 2 on a playoff team anymore. His low basketball IQ and garbage shot selection haven't gotten better with time and his shooting somehow is getting worse with age, not better. I would like to think he'll someday realize he can't make every shot or solely rely on athleticism and he has to develop a reliable 3-point shot, but if he hasn't at age 32, that ship has probably sailed.

Once his contract is up in a few years and teams don't have to start him to justify paying him $40M plus a season, it will be very interesting to see how the rest of his career trajectory plays out. I think he's going to be like Melo. He's going to bounce around teams struggling to find a role and refusing to accepting his declining skills. Melo at least found a team that fit and was finally willing to take more of a backseat in Portland, but I'm not sure if Westbrook will.

[beasted86]

I'm sure most teams would prefer a 15 PPG (50% FG), 7 AST (1.2 TOV) very efficient player over a 22 PPG (40% FG), 10.5 AST (4.5 TOV) stat-chasing bum.

Wade was never a 3PT shooter but figured out a way to be a top 3 all-time SG because of IQ. That's where Westbrook is lacking, not declining athleticism. Westbrook has enough physical ability to be a good player, just doesn't know how. Coaches keep playing him huge minutes without redefining his role and holding him accountable.

[warfelg]

What's crazy is look at RW last year pre-bubble. He was being held accountable, had changed his style some, and was playing really freaking good. So it's there, I think the issue is he doesn't see many coaches and players "worthy" of playing with him like that.

[mightybosstone]

I'm sure most teams would prefer a 15 PPG (50% FG), 7 AST (1.2 TOV) very efficient player over a 22 PPG (40% FG), 10.5 AST (4.5 TOV) stat-chasing bum.

Wade was never a 3PT shooter but figured out a way to be a top 3 all-time SG because of IQ. That's where Westbrook is lacking, not declining athleticism. Westbrook has enough physical ability to be a good player, just doesn't know how. Coaches keep playing him huge minutes without redefining his role and holding him accountable.

That's what worked about Westbrook's 2-month stretch last year pre-COVID. He stopped shooting 3s and long 2s and just attacked the rim constantly. He wasn't forcing the shots that weren't there. But he came back from the break and just totally forgot everything he'd succeeded at previously, and he's somehow even worse in Washington than he was in the bubble.

I think Wade's game aged better regardless of the 3-point shot because he'd always been a higher percentage guy throughout his career, too. He was a better mid-range shooter, a better finisher around the basket and certainly a better free throw shooter than Westbrook. Granted, he fell out of his peak really early in his career, but he was still a solid, above average starter even after Lebron left, even if he wasn't really an All-Star caliber player anymore. You can't even say that about Westy anymore—he's just a complete minus for a team when he's on the floor. Low IQ. Atrocious shooter. Can't hit a free throw. Doesn't defend especially well.

Westbrook's best case scenario is maybe becoming an energy provider off the bench later in his career. He's a guy who could come in and help ignite the second unit for 20 minutes a game, and you could forgive the poor shooting and low IQ. But as a starting PG making $40M and playing 35+ minutes a night? Yikes.

[mightybosstone]

What's crazy is look at RW last year pre-bubble. He was being held accountable, had changed his style some, and was playing really freaking good. So it's there, I think the issue is he doesn't see many coaches and players "worthy" of playing with him like that.

Yeah, he had seriously made a fan out of me. For that stretch, he held the Rockets together and was the best player on the floor for them while Harden had one of the worst slumps he'd ever had in Houston. That's why his play in the bubble was so disappointing. It really looked like he'd turned a corner.

[Scoots]

Yeah, he had seriously made a fan out of me. For that stretch, he held the Rockets together and was the best player on the floor for them while Harden had one of the worst slumps he'd ever had in Houston. That's why his play in the bubble was so disappointing. It really looked like he'd turned a corner.

Russ has never had the BBIQ to dominate the way his body should have allowed him to.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Blake and Love 1st come to mind. I try to give Love the befit of the doubt sonce I do think he can be a good role player but he is just as injured as blake. Whereas blakes skillset doesnt age as a role player.

[beasted86]

I know it's just roughly a quarter ways in, but Draymond appears to be completely done.

[smith&wesson]

I know it's just roughly a quarter ways in, but Draymond appears to be completely done.

Yeah he didn’t look like himself last year either and I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he was playing with scrubs but he just doesn’t look the same at all. On either end.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Draymond has been playing bad on the stats but hows his defense? Probably dropped off but is it all nba type?