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  1. #91
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    Ironic? Me thinks you donít understand the word.

    You accuse my well reasoned counter argument of being driven by personal prejudices, then your entire ensuing counter argument was based on blind faith and allegiance to our FO.

    If you think my arguments are prejudiced against Trevor Bauer then, by all means, beyond all the statistical relevance Iíve provided in conjunction with all of the other issues Iíve pointed out, show me where my ďprejudiceĒ comes in to play. Iíll wait.

    The reality is that these issues do exist with Trevor Bauer. If they didnít exist with Trevor Bauer, I wouldnít be able to speak to them. Could I speak this way about Justin Turner? Nope. Yasiel Puig? Yup. Clayton Kershaw? Not even remotely. Trevor Bauer? Absolutely. Heís opened himself up for this criticism and heís not a good enough player to get a pass, certainly not after also getting more money than heís worth.

    Iíve already made the statistical case against Trevor Bauer. Please, go ahead and make the statistical case in favor of him... because so far, all Iíve seen is a bunch of empty glib.

    To be clear, broadly defending the FO is not an argument for Bauer. Does it have relevance to this discussion? Sure, but itís not the topic. Iíve been one of the staunchest supporters of this FO since it arrived, but that doesnít mean they are immune to criticism. Sure, itís low risk because itís a 3 year deal, but would it palatable for you to give that same deal to...?

    CAREER SIMILARITY SCORES
    Chris Young (Padres)
    Mike Fiers
    Ben McDonald
    Sonny Gray
    Tanner Roark
    Julio Teheran
    Chuck Dobson
    Patrick Corbin
    Mat Latos
    Chad Billingley

    SIMILARITY THROUGH AGE 29
    Ben McDonald
    Ken Hill
    Ubaldo Jimenez
    James Shields
    Patrick Corbin
    Matt Garza
    Kevin Brown (FWIW, sucked until he was 31)
    Scott Kazmir

    The only argument for a name on that list is Kevin Brown who was similar through age 29, but Brown wasnít very good until his age 31 season. Could Bauer be closer to the anomaly on this list than he is to everyone else? Itís possible, but unlikely. BTW, thatís just a hope for the future, not a merit based argument. And still, people talk about Kevin Brown as if that was one of the worst Dodgers contracts ever. Also note, Scott Kazmir is on that list and he didnít work out too well for this FO.

    Why do you think that Machado, Puig, and Kemp are good examples of successfully managing teammates that are bad for chemistry? Letís go chronologically...

    This FO took over for the 2015 season and paid a shitload of money to move Kemp before he had a chance to play for them. They only brought him back for one season in a salary swap late in his career when Kempís reputation as a diva had seemed to have significantly subsided.

    Puigís reputation as a Dodger is riddled with clubhouse distraction stories and only got worse after he left. The FO loved his potential, but his reputation was clearly a concern for acquiring teams. We traded him and never even considered a reunion. Why would we trade somebody with talent if we felt his maturity issues werenít a problem? This FO isnít afraid to let players it wants to retain hit free agency if thatís what the player wants (JT and Kenley for example).

    Machado spent less than half a season here (66 games) and, outside of Mannyís dad claiming we did, there doesnít seem to be any evidence that we made him an offer to stay.

    What team successes did we have with those players that indicates they were not a problem? What similarities do they share with the Bauer deal?

    So, you have a lot of faith in the FO? Cool. I do too. Does that mean theyíre infallible? Does that mean every deal is a good one? Does that mean Brandon McCarthy and Scott Kazmir were worth the investment?

    If you havenít watched the ďYouTubeĒ video because itís a ďYouTubeĒ video, then thatís willfull ignorance on your part. This isnít a conspiracy theory video, itís literally a journaling of Trevor Bauer openly bragging about cheating. I mean, how far will you go to say a guy isnít cheating when heís literally saying everything just short of ďIím cheatingĒ.

    Alternatively, you can find tons of articles online that say the same thing, or just follow the dudeís Twitter. I chose to post the video because itís easy to watch and well put together.

    And, correction - Trevor Bauer was the 2ND best pitcher in the league last year - a total of 11 games - and he unabashedly cheated to get there.

    Iím not trying to convince anyone this was a bad deal. But I also donít think this forum has to be two sides of a line in the sand as it most always is.

    Youíve pledged blind faith and allegiance in the FO - duly noted. Others hate the FO without reason.

    I think the FO is the best in the league and I also think theyíre not beyond criticism. No one is beyond criticism. You donít have to like that I donít like this deal. You also donít have to try to hide my very well-reasoned arguments behind a veil that Iím just prejudiced against Trevor Bauerís ďpoliticsĒ to try and score points with people that do like the deal. Again, show me where my ďprejudiceĒ comes in to play or stop accusing me of it.

    I donít like this deal for the reasons Iíve mentioned. Again, I hope Iím wrong about it.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 02-11-2021 at 12:51 PM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Ironic? Me thinks you donít understand the word.

    You accuse my well reasoned counter argument of being driven by personal prejudices, then your entire ensuing counter argument was based on blind faith and allegiance to our FO.

    If you think my arguments are prejudiced against Trevor Bauer then, by all means, beyond all the statistical relevance Iíve provided in conjunction with all of the other issues Iíve pointed out, show me where my ďprejudiceĒ comes in to play. Iíll wait.

    The reality is that these issues do exist with Trevor Bauer. If they didnít exist with Trevor Bauer, I wouldnít be able to speak to them. Could I speak this way about Justin Turner? Nope. Yasiel Puig? Yup. Clayton Kershaw? Not even remotely. Trevor Bauer? Absolutely. Heís opened himself up for this criticism and heís not a good enough player to get a pass, certainly not after also getting more money than heís worth.

    Iíve already made the statistical case against Trevor Bauer. Please, go ahead and make the statistical case in favor of him... because so far, all Iíve seen is a bunch of empty glib.

    To be clear, broadly defending the FO is not an argument for Bauer. Does it have relevance to this discussion? Sure, but itís not the topic. Iíve been one of the staunchest supporters of this FO since it arrived, but that doesnít mean they are immune to criticism. Sure, itís low risk because itís a 3 year deal, but would it palatable for you to give that same deal to...?

    CAREER SIMILARITY SCORES
    Chris Young (Padres)
    Mike Fiers
    Ben McDonald
    Sonny Gray
    Tanner Roark
    Julio Teheran
    Chuck Dobson
    Patrick Corbin
    Mat Latos
    Chad Billingley

    SIMILARITY THROUGH AGE 29
    Ben McDonald
    Ken Hill
    Ubaldo Jimenez
    James Shields
    Patrick Corbin
    Matt Garza
    Kevin Brown (FWIW, sucked until he was 31)
    Scott Kazmir

    The only argument for a name on that list is Kevin Brown who was similar through age 29, but Brown wasnít very good until his age 31 season. Could Bauer be closer to the anomaly on this list than he is to everyone else? Itís possible, but unlikely. BTW, thatís just a hope for the future, not a merit based argument. And still, people talk about Kevin Brown as if that was one of the worst Dodgers contracts ever. Also note, Scott Kazmir is on that list and he didnít work out too well for this FO.

    Why do you think that Machado, Puig, and Kemp are good examples of successfully managing teammates that are bad for chemistry? Letís go chronologically...

    This FO took over for the 2015 season and paid a shitload of money to move Kemp before he had a chance to play for them. They only brought him back for one season in a salary swap late in his career when Kempís reputation as a diva had seemed to have significantly subsided.

    Puigís reputation as a Dodger is riddled with clubhouse distraction stories and only got worse after he left. The FO loved his potential, but his reputation was clearly a concern for acquiring teams. We traded him and never even considered a reunion. Why would we trade somebody with talent if we felt his maturity issues werenít a problem? This FO isnít afraid to let players it wants to retain hit free agency if thatís what the player wants (JT and Kenley for example).

    Machado spent less than half a season here (66 games) and, outside of Mannyís dad claiming we did, there doesnít seem to be any evidence that we made him an offer to stay.

    What team successes did we have with those players that indicates they were not a problem? What similarities do they share with the Bauer deal?

    So, you have a lot of faith in the FO? Cool. I do too. Does that mean theyíre infallible? Does that mean every deal is a good one? Does that mean Brandon McCarthy and Scott Kazmir were worth the investment?

    If you havenít watched the ďYouTubeĒ video because itís a ďYouTubeĒ video, then thatís willfull ignorance on your part. This isnít a conspiracy theory video, itís literally a journaling of Trevor Bauer openly bragging about cheating. I mean, how far will you go to say a guy isnít cheating when heís literally saying everything just short of ďIím cheatingĒ.

    Alternatively, you can find tons of articles online that say the same thing, or just follow the dudeís Twitter. I chose to post the video because itís easy to watch and well put together.

    And, correction - Trevor Bauer was the 2ND best pitcher in the league last year - a total of 11 games - and he unabashedly cheated to get there.

    Iím not trying to convince anyone this was a bad deal. But I also donít think this forum has to be two sides of a line in the sand as it most always is.

    Youíve pledged blind faith and allegiance in the FO - duly noted. Others hate the FO without reason.

    I think the FO is the best in the league and I also think theyíre not beyond criticism. No one is beyond criticism. You donít have to like that I donít like this deal. You also donít have to try to hide my very well-reasoned arguments behind a veil that Iím just prejudiced against Trevor Bauerís ďpoliticsĒ to try and score points with people that do like the deal. Again, show me where my ďprejudiceĒ comes in to play or stop accusing me of it.

    I donít like this deal for the reasons Iíve mentioned. Again, I hope Iím wrong about it.
    The Irony is about you calling out the other posters. You seem to insinuate that they can't criticize the front office as being idiots in the past, and then get behind this move. All in or all out, right? Yet, you basically come at me for being "all in". Which is it? You want fans to only take one side or the other, or do you want them to be able to change their mind, and have differing opinions from time to time? Maybe you just want to tell everyone what the rules are, and have them fall in line with what they should think or feel? That would certainly be easier.

    My point about the Youtube videos is that you are doing what you always do...acting like you have some moral or intellectual superiority that everyone else missed, including our own front office, and of course the rest of the posters on this board. You just doubled down on that again, suggesting a lack of buy-in to what you're selling constitutes ignorance, or perhaps stupidity.

    If we just listen to you, we would understand better, and stop being fooled by last season's results and what we witnessed in his 1 postseason start vs. the Braves. Nothing to get excited about, right?

    Of course there are no guarantees. No one believes in absolutes whether it be faith in players or front office.

  3. #93
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    Comparing Bauer over his "career body of work" is asinine.

    There is a reason that just about EVERY ranking of the top starters in the game right now have him in their top 5. It is DeGrom, Cole and Bauer almost consistently in their top 5.

    Why? Because he isn't the same pitcher he was earlier in his career. It would be like evaluating Justin Verlander during his early years with Detroit (before winning his first Cy Young at age 28, a year younger than Trevor was). Cole (still without a CY) was nothing really to brag about until he arrived in Houston and hell even DeGrom didn't figure it all out until he was 30.

    No, he isn't in the same league as DeGrom and I would probably put him a notch below Cole, but considering he is almost 3 years younger than the former and some 6 months the later, I like this short term deal and it is worth the risk.

    2019 was filtered with some bad starts in his transition in-season move from Cleveland to Cincy, but I think odds are it was an outlier for the new Trevor Bauer. A mechanic who simply doesn't walk anyone like he used to and really has harnessed his game.

    I cant think of a starting pitcher I would put above him other than those two. Bieber probably, but that is evaluating him on one solid season- albeit a Cy Young short one. Darvish? No, even with his comeback I can't put him over Trevor (who he lost the Cy Young to). Scherzer is on the decline. Nola's numbers simply don't compare. Buehler and Giolito aren't there yet.

    I mean it is laughable to suggest he isn't one of the best in the game right now.

    Of course he is and we just added him to a rotation that still has Kershaw (borderline Top 10), quickly approaching stud top 5 guy in Buehler (who has about 10 million in incentives to shoot for), one of the better young southpaws in the game in Urias and a trio of young right-handers with good to exceptional stuff on the way in May, Gonsolin and Gray. Oh, and a former Cy Young winner himself in Price coming back to boot

    Enough with the insanity...
    Last edited by bkt42; 02-11-2021 at 02:16 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    The Irony is about you calling out the other posters.
    Firstly - that's still not irony, it's hypocrisy, and it doesn't apply here.

    Secondly - who did I call out?

    I said days before the signing that I wouldn't want him to play here... No one replied except my boy WS42 making a joke that Bauer likely wouldn't get along with the clubhouse chemistry. Outside of that comment, no one seemed to care what I wrote one way or the other,

    Then Bauer signed and everyone else was happy. I didn't even comment because it doesn't excite me personally. In fact, I only commented because you called me out by fabricating the idea that me not wanting him is entirely based on my alleged prejudice of his politics.

    I simply responded to list the many reasons the signing is not appealing to me and that it goes far beyond politics... Emphasis on WHY THIS SIGNING IS NOT APPEALING TO ME.

    Again, you don't have to agree with me but you can bet your *** I'm going to respond to the presumption that I don't want someone simply because I have some prejudice against his "politics". Doubling down on that suggestion and ignoring my actual points to hide my response from everyone else also isn't going to go unnoticed; it will also get a reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    You seem to insinuate that they can't criticize the front office as being idiots in the past, and then get behind this move.
    Ok, so now we're moving from general glibness into ad-hominem and water muddying.

    To clarify, I'm in general agreement with being critical of authority, even - and perhaps moreso - authorities one generally supports. When someone puts a well-reasoned argument together, I'm absolutely in favor of hearing it, discussing, and even debating it. What I was referencing is the ridiculous nature of blindly being "always for" something, or always "against it".

    Specifically, when I criticize critiques, it's generally one's that make little to no sense. For example, when someone who always seems to be on the side "always against" the FO or Manager criticizes a manager for using the wrong hitter, not until after having the results and with no sound reasoning other than having the benefit of said results, that's pure nonsense.

    Tell me where I've told people that they must be all in or all out?

    I also often criticize the actions of people I mostly align with when it's warranted. If this FO makes a deal I like, I defend it. Sometimes it blows up in my face; 5 or so years ago, I (IRONICALLY) sided with them on McCarthy and Kazmir because they were "short term" and, therefore, were good risks. Sure, Bauer doesn't bear the health issues of Kazmir and McCarthy, but neither of the latter came with anywhere near the baggage of the former. AND Bauer is going to be paid more than the entire payroll of 4 different teams in 2021 and possibly 2022. Is he really worth that?

    Before you say that $34M isn't a big deal for this FO, mind you, I've been suggesting that we could potentially sign both Lindor and Seager and people have been telling me I'm crazy... Do you think this deal for Bauer makes the possibility of getting both of these guys more or less likely? It's certain to at least have some impact, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    All in or all out, right? Yet, you basically come at me for being "all in". Which is it? You want fans to only take one side or the other, or do you want them to be able to change their mind, and have differing opinions from time to time? Maybe you just want to tell everyone what the rules are, and have them fall in line with what they should think or feel? That would certainly be easier.
    Again, when did I suggest you have to be all in or all out? There are generally two scenarios wherein I engage in debate with posters in this forum; (1) when they come after my posts - especially without good reasoning. (2) When they essentially never have anything positive to say and, then, only in the case that they go hard after something non-sensical.

    I don't have any rules; I post my opinions and if people come after them, they should be prepared for debate. Do you have rules for me? Because as far as I can tell I posted an opinion you didn't like and you came after it multiple times on this same topic. Am I mischaracterizing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    My point about the Youtube videos is that you are doing what you always do...acting like you have some moral or intellectual superiority that everyone else missed, including our own front office, and of course the rest of the posters on this board. You just doubled down on that again, suggesting a lack of buy-in to what you're selling constitutes ignorance, or perhaps stupidity.
    Lol... So I shouldn't post supporting evidence for my topic points because you think that it makes me look like I'm arguing from a position of moral/or intellectual superiority?

    So who is it that appears to be making rules for this forum? I literally said the other day that I just found out about all of the Trevor Bauer social media nastiness. I shared that video because if I just found out about, I'm sure plenty other people were also not aware - not because I think I know things that you don't... And I'm not sorry if you feel that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    If we just listen to you, we would understand better, and stop being fooled by last season's results and what we witnessed in his 1 postseason start vs. the Braves. Nothing to get excited about, right?
    If you just listened to me, you'd be a puppet. If I just listened to the FO, I'd be a puppet. Do you see the hypocrisy in your statement?

    I'm not telling you not to get excited about 1 start vs the Braves, or 1.3 non-consecutive seasons of outstanding baseball.

    I'm telling you that I don't look at all of this things in separate vacuums. When I look at the whole picture that I, PERSONALLY, am not excited for it.

    Do you need me to agree with you?


    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    Of course there are no guarantees. No one believes in absolutes whether it be faith in players or front office.
    Yeah, that's basically what I said, except one of us used the whole picture in making his case, and the other keeps trying to tell him to change his mind because the FO is great.

    Again, I don't disagree on the FO, I just don't agree on Bauer. These are not mutually exclusive ideas
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 02-11-2021 at 05:31 PM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    Comparing Bauer over his "career body of work" is asinine.
    As asinine as it was to believe the R.A. Dickey was the best pitcher in baseball at one time? As asinine as it was to believe that Jake Arrieta was going to overtake that mantle from Clayton Kershaw based on a half season of baseball?

    What's more asinine, taking a pitcher for his full scope of work, or 1/3 of a season of dominant baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    There is a reason that just about EVERY ranking of the top starters in the game right now have him in their top 5. It is DeGrom, Cole and Bauer almost consistently in their top 5.
    Yeah, and that reason is entirely based on 1/3 of a season of baseball wherein he increased his spin rate to levels unforeseen; a result which he himself has consistently said is impossible to do without cheating and, in turn, he himself smugly continues to suggest that he is doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    ...he isn't the same pitcher he was earlier in his career.
    You're right, because he admittedly is being aided by a foreign substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    It would be like evaluating Justin Verlander during his early years with Detroit (before winning his first Cy Young at age 28, a year younger than Trevor was). Cole (still without a CY) was nothing really to brag about until he arrived in Houston and hell even DeGrom didn't figure it all out until he was 30.
    These comps have an intellectually dishonest feel. You well know Degrom is a Piazza-esque exception, not the rule. To the other guys, across their professional careers, there has always been a significant difference between Cole and Bauer. Bauer has always been seen as having potential, but not the potential of Cole or Verlander. In either case, Verlander and Cole also appear to be cheating, in fact Bauer's own crusade is predicated on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    No, he isn't in the same league as DeGrom and I would probably put him a notch below Cole, but considering he is almost 3 years younger than the former and some 6 months the later, I like this short term deal and it is worth the risk.
    That's great. Again, I'm not telling you you shouldn't be excited, I'm simply saying, this one doesn't make my clock point to midnight, if you get my drift.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    2019 was filtered with some bad starts in his transition in-season move from Cleveland to Cincy, but I think odds are it was an outlier for the new Trevor Bauer. A mechanic who simply doesn't walk anyone like he used to and really has harnessed his game.

    I cant think of a starting pitcher I would put above him other than those two. Bieber probably, but that is evaluating him on one solid season- albeit a Cy Young short one. Darvish? No, even with his comeback I can't put him over Trevor (who he lost the Cy Young to). Scherzer is on the decline. Nola's numbers simply don't compare. Buehler and Giolito aren't there yet.
    I mean it is laughable to suggest he isn't one of the best in the game right now.
    How can you possibly suggest it's laughable that I'm not going to label Bauerone of the best in the game based on 1.3 seasons of (NON-CONSECUTIVE) impressive results, then suggest Bieber isn't as good because Bieber only has 1.3 seasons of (CONSECUTIVE) impressive work? BTW, Bieber is 25 and his whole scope of work to-date is more impressive than Bauer's.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    Of course he is
    We disagree. I'm open to hear some logical explanation, but just throwing out the names of other pitchers isn't getting it done for me personally.

    And still, my opinions don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not talking just potential performance, or just AAV, or just his social media non-sense, or just his cheating as you guys seem to be making it out to be, I'm looking at the whole picture and saying this ain't for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    and we just added him to a rotation that still has Kershaw (borderline Top 10), quickly approaching stud top 5 guy in Buehler (who has about 10 million in incentives to shoot for), one of the better young southpaws in the game in Urias and a trio of young right-handers with good to exceptional stuff on the way in May, Gonsolin and Gray. Oh, and a former Cy Young winner himself in Price coming back to boot
    So let's look for some agreement here... Yes, we are stacked. In order for the Bauer deal to be worth it, he needs to pitch like an ace because it is entirely possible that he is outperformed in 2021 by at least three starters that were already on the roster. The Bauer of 2019 (his last full season), that guy might be our 5th starter this year.


    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    Enough with the insanity...
    Agreed
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 02-11-2021 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #96
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    Regarding Bauer, he seems to be saying the right things now. Hopefully we see a much improved, mature human being in LA.

  7. #97
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    Dodgers trade for Sheldon Neuse from the Aís. One of their top prospects, loads of power potential and really solid defensively at 3rd. Can also play 2nd. He had a great season in AAA in 2019.

    This looks like weíre hedging out bets on Turner and creating opportunity for competition, but it could also could be that weíre still ready to sign Turner and, potentially, hedging on the DH returning.

    Could Neuse be the next Muncy?

  8. #98
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    According to MLB.comís prospect profile, itís very possible this FO views Neuse more as a - less defensively versatile, more offensively capable - replacement for Kikť as the Super U guy.

    https://www.mlb.com/prospects/athlet...n-neuse-641914

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    As asinine as it was to believe the R.A. Dickey was the best pitcher in baseball at one time? As asinine as it was to believe that Jake Arrieta was going to overtake that mantle from Clayton Kershaw based on a half season of baseball?

    What's more asinine, taking a pitcher for his full scope of work, or 1/3 of a season of dominant baseball?



    Yeah, and that reason is entirely based on 1/3 of a season of baseball wherein he increased his spin rate to levels unforeseen; a result which he himself has consistently said is impossible to do without cheating and, in turn, he himself smugly continues to suggest that he is doing.



    You're right, because he admittedly is being aided by a foreign substance.



    These comps have an intellectually dishonest feel. You well know Degrom is a Piazza-esque exception, not the rule. To the other guys, across their professional careers, there has always been a significant difference between Cole and Bauer. Bauer has always been seen as having potential, but not the potential of Cole or Verlander. In either case, Verlander and Cole also appear to be cheating, in fact Bauer's own crusade is predicated on it.



    That's great. Again, I'm not telling you you shouldn't be excited, I'm simply saying, this one doesn't make my clock point to midnight, if you get my drift.



    How can you possibly suggest it's laughable that I'm not going to label Bauerone of the best in the game based on 1.3 seasons of (NON-CONSECUTIVE) impressive results, then suggest Bieber isn't as good because Bieber only has 1.3 seasons of (CONSECUTIVE) impressive work? BTW, Bieber is 25 and his whole scope of work to-date is more impressive than Bauer's.


    We disagree. I'm open to hear some logical explanation, but just throwing out the names of other pitchers isn't getting it done for me personally.

    And still, my opinions don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not talking just potential performance, or just AAV, or just his social media non-sense, or just his cheating as you guys seem to be making it out to be, I'm looking at the whole picture and saying this ain't for me.



    So let's look for some agreement here... Yes, we are stacked. In order for the Bauer deal to be worth it, he needs to pitch like an ace because it is entirely possible that he is outperformed in 2021 by at least three starters that were already on the roster. The Bauer of 2019 (his last full season), that guy might be our 5th starter this year.




    Agreed
    I actually said I would probably put Bieber ahead of him. But those three (DeGrom, Cole) would be the only ones. Who would you put ahead of him right now?

    And no, the ranking isn't only based on his 1/3 of a season, but it also had his 2018 into the evaluation as well; which was also dominant.

    We can agree to disagree, but Bauer I think is going to be a Cy Young contender in both his seasons here...and adding that to Buehler's potential ceiling as well makes it extremely exciting.

    I repeat there was no single player in free-agency that was going to raise the odds of a repeat more than this guy, even as we do wait for more balance from the right side of the plate...

  10. #100
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    surprised about the Kolarek trade. Other than Gonzalez and the Clevinger guy who we traded for who is unproven what other lefty do we have in the pen? Are Dodgers going to make a trade for another lefty?

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Regarding Bauer, he seems to be saying the right things now. Hopefully we see a much improved, mature human being in LA.
    Ya I watched the question and answer part with Friedman. He does his homework and talks to people about a person's character. I trust in the process with the Dodgers FO regarding getting good character guys and also getting rid of poor character guys. I'm with you on Bauer on that he has shown some immaturity and in no shape or form will say he is a top 5 pitcher in such a small sample base. Now if he performs to 95% of what he did last year, then I will say he was worth the money and he is a top 5 pitcher.

    LOL, if some of these posters here knew who your were.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    I actually said I would probably put Bieber ahead of him. But those three (DeGrom, Cole) would be the only ones. Who would you put ahead of him right now?
    IMO, it depends on which version of Bauer we get. This guyís effectiveness has always relied on his naturally high spin rates. At his normal spin rates, I think heís shown to be something between a mid-rotation guy and a very solid number 2 on a deep playoff contender. I, personally, wouldnít put that version of him on any ďtop 10Ē lists.

    Iím not suggesting heís the only one using a banned substance - that is clearly not the case. Scherzer, Cole, Verlander, Felix Hernandez, and many other high profile guys have been outed and, again, thatís the very basis of his own crusade. However, I do suspect that Bauer, whose successes even prior to 2020 were predicated on his naturally high spin rates, is likely getting a bigger boost than those guys because heís so much better at spinning it naturally. I know that sounds strange, but spin rate is not everything. Some of these guys make up the difference with the velocity edge they have on him.

    If MLB doesnít crack down on the banned substances and he continues using them, then heís very likely in my top 10, I just donít know that I can give him top 5 based on 1.33 non-consecutive seasons, especially when the primary basis of his rankings is the latter 0.33.

    To be clear, I only call it cheating because not everyone is doing it and itís against the rules. Iíd be totally fine with it if everyone was doing the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    And no, the ranking isn't only based on his 1/3 of a season, but it also had his 2018 into the evaluation as well; which was also dominant.
    Yes, but it conveniently forgets about his 2019. Look at it from my perspective; youíre telling me Bauer is a top 3 starter in baseball for the next two years, right? I say this is based on 1/3 of a season in 2020... you retort by suggesting he also had a solid 2018... well, isnít it entirely possible that 2021 looks more like 2019 considering that there was a bad year between?

    Again, to me, his success hinges on being able to keep that spin rate up. If MLB doesnít crack down on this, heíll be elite; not as good as 2020, but elite. If MLB does crack down, I think he drops a bit further down the list than even some others who are using a banned substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    We can agree to disagree, but Bauer I think is going to be a Cy Young contender in both his seasons here...and adding that to Buehler's potential ceiling as well makes it extremely exciting.
    He very well may be. But without that spin rate, he might be the 3rd or 4th starter on this team... which admittedly, still isnít a bad claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkt42 View Post
    I repeat there was no single player in free-agency that was going to raise the odds of a repeat more than this guy, even as we do wait for more balance from the right side of the plate...
    I agree with that, but this isnít what weíre debating. Unless I missed something, you and I were discussing whether he was one of the 3 best pitchers in baseball.

    Whether he was the one free agent that could move the needle most for us is another story. Even if he pitches to be the 3rd best starter on the team, then yeah, he absolutely does.

    But again, it must be reiterated that my criticism of the signing is not entirely based on projected performance - it was based on the whole picture. Iím hopeful it works out in all aspects
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamar2006 View Post
    surprised about the Kolarek trade. Other than Gonzalez and the Clevinger guy who we traded for who is unproven what other lefty do we have in the pen? Are Dodgers going to make a trade for another lefty?
    Itíll be interesting to see what they do. Kolarek didnít really have a prominent role, but it was certainly a useful one in a pinch. This might signify that Urias could be moving to the pen.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShadow42 View Post
    Ya I watched the question and answer part with Friedman. He does his homework and talks to people about a person's character. I trust in the process with the Dodgers FO regarding getting good character guys and also getting rid of poor character guys. I'm with you on Bauer on that he has shown some immaturity and in no shape or form will say he is a top 5 pitcher in such a small sample base. Now if he performs to 95% of what he did last year, then I will say he was worth the money and he is a top 5 pitcher.

    LOL, if some of these posters here knew who your were.
    Whatchu talkiní bout? Iím a puppy dog

    Agreed, again, Iím hoping it proves to be a good deal.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Itíll be interesting to see what they do. Kolarek didnít really have a prominent role, but it was certainly a useful one in a pinch. This might signify that Urias could be moving to the pen.
    Or maybe theyíre moving Floro to fill the role! Lol

    I always liked Floro, but Bauerís addition to the rotation bumps a starter and makes Floro expendable. I hope Vesia is worth it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/dodgerb...021/02/12/amp/
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 02-12-2021 at 09:44 PM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

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