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  1. #19831
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    He wonít play 20 min per game regardless of his play. Thereís almost no path for him to get there. He would need to get 5-8 minutes per game at C to come close.
    Which makes the pick, and the moves made, even stranger.

    Maybe 20 was a stretch, but better be at least close

  2. #19832
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I think 20 mins is a bit of a long shot. Iím guessing somewhere between 14- 18 is most likely without any injuries. I do think both small and big lineups could be playable but Thibs seems to really value playing units together so I wouldnít expect a lot of deviation. If Toppin was good and Thibs was willing to say Iíll run a small or a big line up ďsome nightsĒ it could boost Toppins mins but that doesnít seem to be his style.


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    The only player off the bench that may get a consistent 20 minutes per game is Rose. I would put Noel second.

    Using 20 min per game isnít a good way to gauge whether Obi is good or not or if he improved. There simply isnít going to be a lot of opportunity unless there are injuries.

  3. #19833
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Which makes the pick, and the moves made, even stranger.

    Maybe 20 was a stretch, but better be at least close
    The pick was made before Randle was a keeper.

    I agree though that itís one of the reasons why I didnít like them bringing Noel back especially at that cost, but again, I donít think they, or anyone else couldíve predicted what happened last season. They probably thought Obi was the future at the time of the draft.

    Map out the minutes and you will see that itíll be tough to get close to 20. 15-16 minutes seems more realistic and even then Obi would have to get time at C. If heís strictly playing PF, heís probably looking at 15 minutes tops with how much Thibs leans on Randle. I think itís safe to say Randle wonít be playing less than 33 minutes per game.

    IQ may be in the same boat as well. I donít think itís indicative of either of them as players, just circumstance. This isnít Frank playing behind the likes of Jack and Mudiay.
    Last edited by smood999; 09-16-2021 at 04:49 PM.

  4. #19834
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    The pick was made before Randle was a keeper.

    I agree though that itís one of the reasons why I didnít like them bringing Noel back especially at that cost, but again, I donít think they, or anyone else couldíve predicted what happened last season. They probably thought Obi was the future at the time of the draft.

    Map out the minutes and you will see that itíll be tough to get close to 20. 15-16 minutes seems more realistic and even then Obi would have to get time at C. If heís strictly playing PF, heís probably looking at 15 minutes tops with how much Thibs leans on Randle. I think itís safe to say Randle wonít be playing less than 33 minutes per game.

    IQ may be in the same boat as well. I donít think itís indicative of either of them as players, just circumstance. This isnít Frank playing behind the likes of Jack and Mudiay.
    Yeah itís not the Randle part, itís the Noel part that gets me

    However, if heís giving us a strong 15 minutes, id hope we move him, rather than let him rot. Itís a mess either way. Heís good, and he doesnít play, and his value is limited. Or heís bad, doesnít play, and his value is limited
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-16-2021 at 05:05 PM.

  5. #19835
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Yeah itís not the Randle part, itís the Noel part that gets me

    However, if heís giving us a strong 15 minutes, id hope we move him, rather than let him rot. Itís a mess either way. Heís good, and he doesnít play, and his value is limited. Or heís bad, doesnít play, and his value is limited
    If he plays as well as he did during the playoffs, will that change your mind? Love what we saw in SL, but donít think heíll get a chance to play like that during the regular season. For me, if he can just do what he did in the playoffs consistently each night, thatís a good signÖas well as just more overall shooting consistency.

  6. #19836
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    If he plays as well as he did during the playoffs, will that change your mind? Love what we saw in SL, but donít think heíll get a chance to play like that during the regular season. For me, if he can just do what he did in the playoffs consistently each night, thatís a good signÖas well as just more overall shooting consistency.
    Itís possible. Again, though, where he playing? I really hate the Noel move, would have loved to have that option open for him

  7. #19837
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Itís possible. Again, though, where he playing? I really hate the Noel move, would have loved to have that option open for him
    I agree. That and Thibs stubbornness which Iím sure had a hand in that decision.

  8. #19838
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    2021 Knicks Trade/FA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I agree. That and Thibs stubbornness which Iím sure had a hand in that decision.
    Noel is definitely a Thibs move. Im still hopeful Thibs will show a little flexibility if Toppin plays well. On paper if Toppin isnít getting 20 mins a night with this roster i agree it doesnít look good for him. In reality I think Thibs has some old school ideas that might make it hard for Toppin to get more then 18 mins a night without injury. Fortunately I think with his style he can make an impact in 15-18 mins. I do think if he takes a clear step forward and is playing less then 20 mins a night the team will feel some what are we going to do with Toppin pressure going into year 3.


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    Last edited by ewing; 09-16-2021 at 10:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #19839
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    He wonít play 20 min per game regardless of his play. Thereís almost no path for him to get there. He would need to get 5-8 minutes per game at C to come close.
    I think this will also now depend on the second unit which will be even stronger than last year. Thibs was forced to bring him back in sooner than later, but if the second unit has it rolling i can see 7-8 min spurts rather than 5 min runs.

    Having Rose, IQ, Burks, Obi and lets just say Noel for now is a second unit that is pretty damn good.

    People forget Obi opened up the season in game one getting minutes then got hurt then no Rose and no one was helping what so ever till Rose came then we saw some spurts with the second the unit and Thibs left that unit run.

    imo Thibs will have more confidence this year with the second unit to leave them in with leads and not have as quick a hook if they stay healthy.

    I agree this is on Obi though he doesn't have the 4 year luxury Frank and Knox had because of age so he has to earn Thibs confidence early on.

    I can't predict or even guess how much small ball Thibs will use with two potential starting centers that will play the majority of the game but certain matchups/teams may allot for this, again pending Obi and how he comes out of the gate.

    I'm actually hoping Randle is down to 35-36 min this season instead of nearly 40, I think he'll be more productive on both sides of the court because you can see at times he just didn't have the gas left.

    So yes Obi needs to play with Randle a min of 5 min to get near 20 per game, tough situation for him.

    I also think if he becomes productive in his minutes he will most likely get moved if there is a big fish available, just an educated guess because big fish cost a lot.

  10. #19840
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Noel is definitely a Thibs move. Im still hopeful Thibs will show a little flexibility if Toppin plays well. On paper if Toppin isnít getting 20 mins a night with this roster i agree it doesnít look good for him. In reality I think Thibs has some old school ideas that might make it hard for Toppin to get more then 18 mins a night without injury. Fortunately I think with his style he can make an impact in 15-18 mins. I do think if he takes a clear step forward and is playing less then 20 mins a night the team will feel some what are we going to do with Toppin pressure going into year 3.


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    i don't understand it's not a good look for Obi if not getting 20 min? He's playing behind the teams Franchise player that just means even if it's 13min and productive min he has value in a trade, what do teams look for lately for a star?
    They want young talented players and picks and cap fillers.

    That brings me to Noel's contract if say at the trade deadline a star is available we no longer have cap so we need salaries to be within 25% hence one of Mitch (if extended) or Noel will need to be included in the deal.

    Knicks most agree got more monies as a backup than needed to be given but to move the contract for salary matching it will be a help later and two years only guaranteed helps out as well. He had teams interested in him for MLE, he got less than that so I think in a package he can be moved.

    I also agree with Smood, this team kind of reminds me of the championship knicks back in the day, not from a talent point of view and not from a championship caliber team but from a aspect of the starting unit is pretty much a given, I believe IMO Mitch owns the starting spot and will get 28-30 min.

    Rose will get 20-24 min so both our PG's can remain healthy.

    RJ is going to get 32-34 min leaving Burks with the remainder and IQ is sitting behind a 30+ min Fourn.

    Hence the old Knicks and the Ewing Knicks where you knew the minutes basically.

    FYI back in the day Stallworth, Jackson, Riordan, and Cazzie Russell came off the bench and a damn good bench and played 19,18,16,11 min......

    Even with a top starting 5 you need a good bench even if the minutes are under 20, this having less value because of minutes don't work for great teams.

  11. #19841
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    Anyone know how I could rewatch the Hawks series?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #19842
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    He could barely consistently give a quality 11 minutes per night, there was no way he could play 27 per lol. Iíd be lying if I said I remember how good Billups was besides his shooting, but he played a lot, so Iíll assume he was at least doing something right. Just because youíre a bad shooter, doesnít mean you arenít good

    I did not say he canít make a jump. I said that the longer it takes for him to prove it, the worse the odds get he pans out. Another year of 11 minutes a night or close, heís got bust written all over him. I never liked him or the pick, but Iíve never said anythingís looking like a certainty. All I say, to this point, nothing is making me doubt that initial take. If we see him getting to the 20 minute mark, and contributing nightly, that makes me start thinking about it
    Longer it takes? This is Obi's 2nd season...lol

    He has already shown improvements in the playoffs he looked better than Randle and RJ to me. He was top 3 best player in SL and throughout his career high school and college he was always a slow starter who eventually took over.

    What I like about Obi on this Knicks team is that he doesn't play like anyone else we have. He is pure athleticism like a Shawn Kemp. Whereas Julius is a skilled brute like Zach Randolph who also had to build himself into an allstar. RJ to me plays just like Jimmy Butler who is a workhorse and improved shooter. With those 3 as core players on this team Thibs will find a way to get them all on the court together.... I still believe Julius can play the 3 for 25 minutes per game with Obi and Mitch or Noel... I'd love to see a lineup of:

    Quick
    RJ
    Julius
    Obi
    Mitch.... on the floor for at least 25 minutes per night.

  13. #19843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Longer it takes? This is Obi's 2nd season...lol

    He has already shown improvements in the playoffs he looked better than Randle and RJ to me. He was top 3 best player in SL and throughout his career high school and college he was always a slow starter who eventually took over.

    What I like about Obi on this Knicks team is that he doesn't play like anyone else we have. He is pure athleticism like a Shawn Kemp. Whereas Julius is a skilled brute like Zach Randolph who also had to build himself into an allstar. RJ to me plays just like Jimmy Butler who is a workhorse and improved shooter. With those 3 as core players on this team Thibs will find a way to get them all on the court together.... I still believe Julius can play the 3 for 25 minutes per game with Obi and Mitch or Noel... I'd love to see a lineup of:

    Quick
    RJ
    Julius
    Obi
    Mitch.... on the floor for at least 25 minutes per night.
    Yes..longer it takes after year 2

    He looked ok in minor minutes against the bench, letís pump the brakes a bit. And guys you mentioned, exactly like I keep saying, start showing the signs in year 2. Increased role, increased production

    In the end though, heís still got a long way to go to prove anything to me. And I stand by what I said, if heís not up near 20 minutes a night, and showing some improvement/consistency, itís not a good sign. I know you donít agree with this, but thereís a definite difference between a guy being 20-21 and struggling, and a dude thatís 23-24. Anyways, hoping he does well, and at least gives us a solid 17-18 a game somehow
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-18-2021 at 02:25 PM.

  14. #19844
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    2021 Knicks Trade/FA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Yes..longer it takes after year 2

    He looked ok in minor minutes against the bench, letís pump the brakes a bit. And guys you mentioned, exactly like I keep saying, start showing the signs in year 2. Increased role, increased production

    In the end though, heís still got a long way to go to prove anything to me. And I stand by what I said, if heís not up near 20 minutes a night, and showing some improvement/consistency, itís not a good sign. I know you donít agree with this, but thereís a definite difference between a guy being 20-21 and struggling, and a dude thatís 23-24. Anyways, hoping he does well, and at least gives us a solid 17-18 a game somehow
    Did he struggle the final 2 months of the season or in the playoffs? I donít think so. If he recreates thatís in 18 mins and shoots 36% from 3s would that be struggling? Iím hoping for more but I think that would be valuable. I get and agree with your overall take but an all star or bust standard seems to sneak in.


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    Last edited by ewing; 09-18-2021 at 03:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  15. #19845
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Did he struggle the final 2 months of the season or in the playoffs? I donít think so. If he recreates thatís in 18 mins and shoots 36% from 3s would that be struggling? Iím hoping for more but I think that would be valuable. I get and agree with your overall take but an all star or bust standard seems to sneak in.


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    Nah, itís far from ďall-star or bustĒ

    He doesnít have to look like an all star ever, to be valuable. But he does have to be a solid contributor for a good portion of his rookie deal, for me to consider him not a bust. You donít take a guy in the top 10 hoping he becomes a good player in year 6 lol

    And thereís a big difference on a guy having a few good games in 12 minutes a game, vs. doing it most nights in 20 or more minutes
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-18-2021 at 03:44 PM.

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