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  1. #196
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    The championship core cost us a lot of long-term pieces.

    Ross, DeRozan, Valanciunas, Poeltl were all homegrown, previous lottery selections that went out the door. Multiple first rounders went with them. Delon Wright was another first round pick that was included in those deals. At some point, the quantity of assets becomes too thin. Which is why I'm against a Harden deal. Once you gut your remaining assets for him, the supporting cast may not look any better than what Houston has around him now and future picks will be out the window.

  2. #197
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    I canít imagine Lowry and Fred willingly tanking. Masai may have to break our hearts and deal Lowry. The Knicks would be a prime target too. He fits the identity theyíre going after and heís an upgrade over Elfrid Payton. If Masai could nab 1 of Toppin or Quickley in a Lowry deal Iíd be happy.

    Once Lowry gets dealt the team falls apart and the tank rolls in. Flynn gets his developmental time off the bench while our bigs continue to let everyone score in the paint.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    Masai's contract is not getting enough attention.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    exactly... and Im trying to stay positive, but the way everyone is being so quiet on the subject and the fact that he hasn't signed yet, add the fact that hes setting the team up to clear a bunch of cap space next year makes me think the worst. I also think this is why the Raptors are in the state they are in. If Masai is leaving he probably didn't want to comitt to any long term contracts in the off season, hence the result of Len & Baynes.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    The championship core cost us a lot of long-term pieces.

    Ross, DeRozan, Valanciunas, Poeltl were all homegrown, previous lottery selections that went out the door. Multiple first rounders went with them. Delon Wright was another first round pick that was included in those deals. At some point, the quantity of assets becomes too thin. Which is why I'm against a Harden deal. Once you gut your remaining assets for him, the supporting cast may not look any better than what Houston has around him now and future picks will be out the window.
    The only deal that hurts is the Gasol one really. That was a necessary trade but it was going to hurt in the long run. I have no qualms with dealing Ross, DeMar and Poeltl considering what we got in return. Hell, I thought Serge would still be here.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    exactly... and Im trying to stay positive, but the way everyone is being so quiet on the subject and the face that he hasn't signed yet, add the fact that hes setting the team up to clear a bunch of cap space next year makes me think the worst. I also think this is why the Raptors are in the state they are in. If Masai is leaving he probably didn't want to comitt to any long term contracts in the off season, hence the result of Len & Baynes.
    There were no big men available after Serge left. Baynes was literally the best one available. Even Tristan Thompson had signed a week or so earlier.

  6. #201
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    On the brighter side, FVV is looking like he totally worth his new deal. Dude is balling out early on this season trying to keep this team in games, and he just keeps getting better. He had 35 points and 8 boards trying to keep up with Tatum's 40 burger.


    I think we have to think about trying:

    Len/Baynes
    Boucher/Watanabe
    Siakam/OG
    Lowry/Powell
    FVV/Davis

    I know defense is a priority, but they need at least 20 ppg combined out of the 2 guys that play with Lowry, FVV and Siakam. OG has struggled to knock down outside shots, and Baynes can't make shots from point blank let alone from behind the arc. So I propose we swap the 2 struggling outside shooters for Len and Boucher. Len has actually shown the ability to space the floor and catch a pass when rolling to the rim, and Boucher looks like he's ready to avg an efficient 15 ppg if they let him play 30+mpg.

    Since they already losing, I think they should take a real look at Boucher and Len. I know it would best to develop them against opposing 2nd units first, but maybe something like this will get OG and Baynes going.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    eh i don't mind the losses. Masai has had it good for a while, which is why he has been pretty passive all these years (despite originally coming in with a scorched earth approach). This core is pretty *** and I don't believe in it so I don't mind piling up losses if it gets Masai to do something. Then again he can just leave lol.
    I dont beleive in this core either. I said it earlier in the thread not to be critical but to simply look at the team realistically vs its opponents in the east and the raptors dont measure up.

    My question is how did we end up here? Was Masai so hell bent on getting Giannis that he didnt have a plan b? I understand keeping the cap space for next year so long as we at least had a shot at getting Giannis but the minute he signed that extension, he was no longer an option. What it seems to me is that Masai scrambled at that point trying to sign whatever big was left in the market. In other words there was no plan b.

    I would have taken the rim protection and rebounding from Whiteside for a measily 2 million dollars to replace Gasol.
    I would have loved to go after Wood for $13 mill a year to replace Ibaka.

    Both contracts have great value. I wonder if we even made a phone call. It just seems to me Masai put all his eggs in one basket and then just signed whoever when that plan didnt go through and now he looks like hes going to bail.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 01-05-2021 at 12:26 PM.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    There were no big men available after Serge left. Baynes was literally the best one available. Even Tristan Thompson had signed a week or so earlier.
    Its our FO job to get a sence of the temperature on these players considering they were our own free agents.. If we sensed that Ibaka was leaving then we should have been working on his replacements on day one of free agency. Thats if the plan was to stay competitive.

    By the looks of the way Masai has handles things, if I were to guess I would say he is leaving. Because he isnt known to be this passive and stand pat while looking at the product on the court and seeing that its clearly not going to work with this combination of players. So I hope he makes some trades but if he infact is leaving chances of that are slim to none.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    If we keep losing games at this pace, I'll have to start a "2021 NBA Draft Prospect of the Week" thread to link scouting reports, etc of all the likely candidates.
    Fine by me. This is a deep draft. Even if we are 10-20 range thats fine with me.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Its our FO job to get a sence of the temperature on these players considering they were our own free agents.. If we sensed that Ibaka was leaving then we should have been working on his replacements on day one of free agency. Thats if the plan was to stay competitive.

    By the looks of the way Masai has handles things, if I were to guess I would say he is leaving. Because he isnt known to be this passive and stand pat while looking at the product on the court and seeing that its clearly not going to work with this combination of players. So I hope he makes some trades but if he infact is leaving chances of that are slim to none.
    Yeah but thatís what I was getting at. There was no hint of Serge leaving. Even some players said they never expected it. The money that went to Baynes was probably being kept for Serge.

    Masai has been passive for his entire tenure minus 1 year. He is the king of patience.

  11. #206
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    Serge didnt leave until the day of didnt he?

    He wanted to stay, they didnt give him the 2nd year and then he went to LAC that night didnt he?

    In terms of replacement, Baynes was pretty good coming in. He just isnt playing well right now. We probably could have gotten someone better than Len though.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Serge didnt leave until the day of didnt he?

    He wanted to stay, they didnt give him the 2nd year and then he went to LAC that night didnt he?

    In terms of replacement, Baynes was pretty good coming in. He just isnt playing well right now. We probably could have gotten someone better than Len though.
    I donít know what caused him to leave but yeah, he waited a long time to make up his mind. Granted Masai was probably working on locking Fred and OG first.

    I didnít realize how slow Baynes is to react to everything on defence until he got here. I hope they donít pick up the option for next year.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Yeah but thatís what I was getting at. There was no hint of Serge leaving. Even some players said they never expected it. The money that went to Baynes was probably being kept for Serge.

    Masai has been passive for his entire tenure minus 1 year. He is the king of patience.
    I think the hope was that Giannis was going to be available and Masai was willingly going to let these guys walk because we needed the cap space for Gannis.

    Masai made his name off of trades:
    - Carmelo being the first one in Denver
    - Tried to trade Lowry NY agreed, then NY backed out
    - Traded Gay for GVZ & Patterson
    - Traded GVZ for what turned out to be Powell
    - Traded Ross for Ibaka
    - Traded Derozan & JP for Kawhi & Green
    - Traded Jonas & Wright for Gasol

    Hes never been passive, and hes know for winning every trade he makes. Thats his rep.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Serge didnt leave until the day of didnt he?

    He wanted to stay, they didnt give him the 2nd year and then he went to LAC that night didnt he?

    In terms of replacement, Baynes was pretty good coming in. He just isnt playing well right now. We probably could have gotten someone better than Len though.
    Why didn't they give him the 2nd year. I think that's the key here... Its because we were keeping cap space open for Giannis. I think we all knew that. Even FVV's contract drops in that 2nd year for the same reason, then climbs back up in year 3&4.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 01-05-2021 at 01:54 PM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Didnít he say he wasnít going to negotiate during the season? I think his moves at the deadline will be telling. If he tanks or sells off an expiring or two (Norm) then I think he stays. If he makes a big win now move then I think heís on the way out. God I hope he stays. I assume Bobby Webster is next in line but Iím not ready for a Masai-less Raptors.
    I read somewhere that ownership wouldnít consider the harden trade without a Masai extension. I think theyíre working on it now.

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