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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Wtf happened with amare? I donít doubt that though. They thought they were the mafia family of basketball.
    Amare was a consensus no.1 pick but he declared for the draft late. The Colangelos got to him first and made a deal with his agent, where he refused to workout or meet with any other team. I read the article about this a long long long time ago, but they detailed suspicious free agent signings connected to Amare's agent and the evidence was pretty compelling.

    Surprised all the mouth breathing conspiracy retards talking about rigging envelopes and ping pong balls don't talk about this. So much evidence of prospects tanking their draft statuses and agents undermining these processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    JV wasnít a safe pick imo. Neither was derozan (who didnít prove much in college and still had a lot of work to do).
    Nah. JV was consensus #4. ESPN and DX had him at #4 to the Cavs. DD was also consensus #9. Ross was a huge reach but BC said Casey said he was the most NBA ready pick (lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Could you be a little more specific about his draft day luck? I find it hard to assign luck to a draft record when busts were chosen before and after our picks.
    I'm just looking at the consensus mock draft rankings. I don't think looking at the results is a good way of looking at this because there's a lot of hindsight bias involved. Like if everyone is saying you should draft X at #5, I don't think you're good at drafting if you pick X at #5 and #2-4 happen to bust. You have to consider the expectations and knowledge at the time of the draft. Like Masai picking OG isn't really "skill" or "scouting" imo. OG was a projected top 5 pick that tanked because he tore his ACL. I personally think that is luck.

    Conversely, I think Masai picking Siakam in the first round shows foresight and skill. That was a HUGE find and an insane reach since he was mocked to go mid to late second round. DX had him as high as #43 and as low as #57 throughout the year.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 04:21 PM.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Amare was a consensus no.1 pick but he declared for the draft late. The Colangelos got to him first and made a deal with his agent, where he refused to workout or meet with any other team. I read the article about this a long long long time ago, but they detailed suspicious free agent signings connected to Amare's agent and the evidence was pretty compelling.

    Surprised all the mouth breathing conspiracy retards talking about rigging envelopes and ping pong balls don't talk about this. So much evidence of prospects tanking their draft statuses and agents undermining these processes.



    Nah. JV was consensus #4. ESPN and DX had him at #4 to the Cavs. DD was also consensus #9. Ross was a huge reach but BC said Casey said he was the most NBA ready pick (lol).



    I'm just looking at the consensus mock draft rankings. I don't think looking at the results is a good way of looking at this because there's a lot of hindsight bias involved. Like if everyone is saying you should draft X at #5, I don't think you're good at drafting if you pick X at #5 and #2-4 happen to bust. You have to consider the expectations and knowledge at the time of the draft. Like Masai picking OG isn't really "skill" or "scouting" imo. OG was a projected top 5 pick that tanked because he tore his ACL. I personally think that is luck.

    Conversely, I think Masai picking Siakam in the first round shows foresight and skill. That was a HUGE find and an insane reach since he was mocked to go mid to late second round. DX had him as high as #43 and as low as #57 throughout the year.
    Hey Iím one of those retards! Haha it just seems illogical to leave the health of the entire billion dollar NBA up to random ping pong balls. Itís poor business. Also when it was leaked during the NHL lock out that it was in the new CBA that the commissioner had the power to assign the first overall pick... the stars always seem to go to the franchise that would be best served with their abilities. Especially with profit sharing... if I was an owner I wouldnít want it to be random. Everyone wins when the league is healthy. The system doesnít work if the fans know #1 picks are being assigned.

    I agree with pretty much your entire post though. I believe DD was mocked in the teens early in the process, but was locked into #9 when it leaked that we told him we would take him at 9 if he was available. JV had his risks too. Being mocked there doesnít necessarily mean itís a safe pick. He had only played in Lithuania and had to stay over seas for a year after being drafted.

    Regardless, I am using hindsight to say that his draft record was pretty good with the raptors. Helped give Mu the bullets he needed to get us a championship.

    Siakam is probably the best pick in raptors history. Agreed that was a ballsy move - especially on the heels of cabocolo. Flynn was a much safer pick, but if he turns into something substantial then he will be another robbery.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I'm not a huge Bargs fan but I think our organization, coaching and management failed him. I think he gets unfairly criticized (to a certain degree) by the fanbase.

    We tried to turn him into something he is not and basically threw him under the bus when it failed. I think over time he just lost interest in basketball as a result.

    This might be an unpopular opinion but the Raptors were a garbage franchise before Masai got here. Careers died in Toronto.
    Not sure why that would be unpopular. ďGarbageĒ might be too strong a word for some, but we were a perennially bad team. Occasional stretches of mediocrity and a couple magical Vince years that made fans into believers. But in decades before Ujiri got here we were never a real contender. We had loads of coaching and GM changes. Star player routinely left when they could.

    I do credit George Cope with some of the transformation though. Ownership didnít care as much until he came on board IMO.

  4. #1624
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    Malachi Flynn will he be somethin? I mean I've seen flashes but I don't know about him unless he takes a huge leap in Year 2 then we will see what he becomes but right now it just ain't lookin too good

    Jalen Harris on the other hand I mean he shows promise or he did but for that 1 game but he needs more time in the G League

    Matter of a fact Flynn might need more time over there too

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Hey Iím one of those retards! Haha it just seems illogical to leave the health of the entire billion dollar NBA up to random ping pong balls. Itís poor business. Also when it was leaked during the NHL lock out that it was in the new CBA that the commissioner had the power to assign the first overall pick... the stars always seem to go to the franchise that would be best served with their abilities. Especially with profit sharing... if I was an owner I wouldnít want it to be random. Everyone wins when the league is healthy. The system doesnít work if the fans know #1 picks are being assigned.
    That's why they have decade long contracts with their broadcasting partners so that the entire health of the business is not dependent on something as miniscule as the Lakers making the playoffs or Zion going to the Knicks. The NBA isn't a mom and pop business. The health of the league is not dependent on random ping pong balls. That's illogical. It's a gross misunderstanding of how their business operates and what actually contributes to their bottom line. It's also hilarious to think that a bunch of lawyers and accountants in the NBA front office, have a better eye for talent and have the foresight to actually determine which players will be significant draws.

    That logic is also so ****ing dumb no offense, when you consider that practically every major market team has been horribly mismanaged for multiple decades. Fact is, no team is too big to fail or else the league would have shut its doors long ago.

    It's also pretty trivial for anyone trained in mathematics to determine if lottery picks are randomly distributed or fraudulent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I agree with pretty much your entire post though. I believe DD was mocked in the teens early in the process, but was locked into #9 when it leaked that we told him we would take him at 9 if he was available. JV had his risks too. Being mocked there doesnít necessarily mean itís a safe pick. He had only played in Lithuania and had to stay over seas for a year after being drafted.
    Nah dude, you need to get your memory checked. They were obvious picks. Demar wasn't dropping below 10. He wasn't some hidden gem. DD was hyped af. On the run up to the draft, he was getting more hype than Harden cause of how hard Harden choked in the tourney. We actually had an outside shot of getting Harden but that was before it was revealed that Rubio and Curry were tanking their draft rankings to try to get to NY.

    Also none of us expected JV to fall to us either. Most were expecting Knight or Biyombo. JV was an obvious pick after he fell.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 05:55 PM.

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Not sure why that would be unpopular. ďGarbageĒ might be too strong a word for some, but we were a perennially bad team. Occasional stretches of mediocrity and a couple magical Vince years that made fans into believers. But in decades before Ujiri got here we were never a real contender. We had loads of coaching and GM changes. Star player routinely left when they could.

    I do credit George Cope with some of the transformation though. Ownership didnít care as much until he came on board IMO.
    The "Colangelo built this team and Masai rode his coattails" crowd is pretty big. There's also the "Butch Carter and Kevin O'Neil were underrated" crowd. So you never know lmfao.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #1627
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    MU basically made this franchise a stable one with improving so many aspects of the club. Hence I am nervous about losing him. I am not sure if Webster or someone new can maintain the same consistency.

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Of course they would do it. I wouldnít though.
    That 1st rounder has a ton of value dude. Rose was traded for a 2nd in this draft. Chicago made a bad trade and they will regret it.
    I really like Murray, I would love for our next point guard to be tall and athletic vs undersized. And Murray is locked in to a really good deal for the next 3 seasons after this one.

    I would love to see a back court of Murry & Trent Jr and have FVV come off the bench as a 6th man at the 1&2 playing 30 plus minutes. Sorta like how Green started, and Gino came off the bench. I think that gives us a lot of versatility with OG/Siakam in the front court.

    The reason I don't think the Spurs do it is because we would be asking them to take on a 35 year old on a new contract. Highly unlikely they would part with their 24 year old pg whos under contract on a team friendly deal. But I agree the pick does have value although we have no idea where the pick will land. Anyways it wasn't a serious trade idea, just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-11-2021 at 11:36 AM.

  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I'm not a huge Bargs fan but I think our organization, coaching and management failed him. I think he gets unfairly criticized (to a certain degree) by the fanbase.

    We tried to turn him into something he is not and basically threw him under the bus when it failed. I think over time he just lost interest in basketball as a result.

    This might be an unpopular opinion but the Raptors were a garbage franchise before Masai got here. Careers died in Toronto.
    Part of it was that we had Bosh and Bargs was obviously not the idea 5 that would compliment Bosh, as Bargs was much better suited as a stretch 4 as well. Another thing that stung was the fact that BC had tunnel vision on Bargs and didn't consider LMA or Brandon Roy. In hindsight Lowry was in the same draft as well, but to be fair no one know he would be this good. But I do imagine what could have been if Bosh was paired up with Roy or even LMA.

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Part of it was that we had Bosh and Bargs was obviously not the idea 5 that would compliment Bosh, as Bargs was much better suited as a stretch 4 as well. Another thing that stung was the fact that BC had tunnel vision on Bargs and didn't consider LMA or Brandon Roy. In hindsight Lowry was in the same draft as well, but to be fair no one know he would be this good. But I do imagine what could have been if Bosh was paired up with Roy or even LMA.
    BC was obsessed with Bargnani. So he was going to draft him regardless. But LMA was the next in line and wanted to play with Bosh. That would have been an interesting pairing.

  11. #1631
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    Y'all officially eliminated from playoff contention but that bein said, may as well drive the tank for the last 4 or 5 games but next year y'all have a lot to address in house such as:

    - Bringing back Masai Ujiri as your President of Basketball Operations

    - Then deciding who you draft as far as the 2021 draft picks for 1st and 2nd round and figuring out how they will fit in your rotation

    - Then getting rid of guys in order to become a playoff team once again such as: Lowry, Baynes, Hood

    - Boucher is also a free agent too isn't he not? So is Birch as well as Trent Jr and deciding to bring those guys back

    - Then deciding who to bring in as free agents and looking at the class who do you like enough to bring to Toronto or if anyone will want to sign with y'all

    - Deciding on whether or not to stay in Tampa as a temporary home especially if Toronto is not an option...if the Canadian government doesn't let you guys play back in Toronto, then which American city do you call home for 21-22? I mean if you leave Tampa, other cities the Raptors can play in for a temporary home: Kansas City, St Louis, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Nashville, Louisville, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas just to name a few

  12. #1632
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    I may like Harris better than Flynn. I want to like Flynn, but not sure...

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I may like Harris better than Flynn. I want to like Flynn, but not sure...
    I feel the exact same way

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    BC was obsessed with Bargnani. So he was going to draft him regardless. But LMA was the next in line and wanted to play with Bosh. That would have been an interesting pairing.
    Maybe because BC is Italian and he viewed Bargs as the next Italian Stallion but Bargs ended up developing in to my little pony lol... maybe our franchise did fail him. We tried to make him play out of position a lot from what I remember.

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Maybe because BC is Italian and he viewed Bargs as the next Italian Stallion but Bargs ended up developing in to my little pony lol... maybe our franchise did fail him. We tried to make him play out of position a lot from what I remember.
    I am also Italian and thought he would be a stallion. I almost got his jersey... whew!

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