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  1. #1606
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    21,266
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Ever since we got Birch the team just looks tougher to beat. Itís not like heís an elite big but heís bringing so much more to the table at 5 than anything we tried all season. Add the fact that we can make some off-season moves, and add talent through the draf, + the team could come home, I think itís going to be a nice bounce back year.
    Agreed.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    ďItís about winning,Ē Stoudemire said. ďYou win, youíre going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won ó Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you donít win, nobody really wants to see you.Ē

  2. #1607
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,579
    Raptors should have never have given up JV because look at his numbers ever since he has left Toronto and joined Memphis...guy is practically putting up double doubles every game

  3. #1608
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    13,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Raptors should have never have given up JV because look at his numbers ever since he has left Toronto and joined Memphis...guy is practically putting up double doubles every game
    Can't believe we traded him for a championship...

    I do miss JV. But we won a championship by dealing all those young players. No regrets....

  4. #1609
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    58,582
    Love JV but yea, we probably don't win without Marc. I'm not losing sleep.

  5. #1610
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    13,443
    I think we all assumed it would go down like this. JV was good, just not the team defender we needed.

  6. #1611
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    2,225
    im more upset about losing Poeltl tbh. I wonder if we could have given up someone else in that Kawhi trade.

  7. #1612
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    348
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    im more upset about losing Poeltl tbh. I wonder if we could have given up someone else in that Kawhi trade.
    I think doing that trade without losing Pascal or OG was an absolute steal. Between the 3, Poetl would be the one I'd choose to lose. Still, it would be nice to have him right now.

  8. #1613
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    28,684
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I share the same opinion. In the modern nba he would have been developed toward his strengths, instead of highlighting his weaknesses.

    Iíll never forget the season they wouldnt let him shoot 3ís. Like wtf?
    He was def better suited for this era. But he had terrible ball iq and couldnít rebound for his life so I think he would still just be a big that can spread the floor and thatís about it. The biggest problem with Barfs was always between the ears.

  9. #1614
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    28,684
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    im more upset about losing Poeltl tbh. I wonder if we could have given up someone else in that Kawhi trade.
    Or how about a S&T for Murray & JP for Lowry and our first rounder

    Murray - Flynn
    FVV - GTJ
    OG - Yuta
    Siakam - Boucher
    JP- Birch- Gillespie


    I know the spurs wouldnít do it lol, one can dream

  10. #1615
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I share the same opinion. In the modern nba he would have been developed toward his strengths, instead of highlighting his weaknesses.

    Iíll never forget the season they wouldnt let him shoot 3ís. Like wtf?
    I'm not a huge Bargs fan but I think our organization, coaching and management failed him. I think he gets unfairly criticized (to a certain degree) by the fanbase.

    We tried to turn him into something he is not and basically threw him under the bus when it failed. I think over time he just lost interest in basketball as a result.

    This might be an unpopular opinion but the Raptors were a garbage franchise before Masai got here. Careers died in Toronto.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 12:07 PM.

  11. #1616
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    13,443
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Or how about a S&T for Murray & JP for Lowry and our first rounder

    Murray - Flynn
    FVV - GTJ
    OG - Yuta
    Siakam - Boucher
    JP- Birch- Gillespie


    I know the spurs wouldnít do it lol, one can dream
    Of course they would do it. I wouldnít though.
    That 1st rounder has a ton of value dude. Rose was traded for a 2nd in this draft. Chicago made a bad trade and they will regret it.

  12. #1617
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    13,443
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I'm not a huge Bargs fan but I think our organization, coaching and management failed him. I think he gets unfairly criticized (to a certain degree) by the fanbase.

    We tried to turn him into something he is not and basically threw him under the bus when it failed. I think over time he just lost interest in basketball as a result.

    This might be an unpopular opinion but the Raptors were a garbage franchise before Masai got here. Careers died in Toronto.
    Outside of the drafting - absolutely agree. Colangelo did well on draft day though. Just didnít have the patience that has served MU so well since taking over.

  13. #1618
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Outside of the drafting - absolutely agree. Colangelo did well on draft day though. Just didnít have the patience that has served MU so well since taking over.
    eh that's arguable. he just picked the safest consensus guy. hard to say how good of a drafter he is when players just fall into his lap. look how he traded up to get Fultz who was the "safe" pick.

    I don't think he has a bad eye for talent but his draft record is vastly overrated. His father and him also did a lot of shady stuff back then as well. It wasn't luck or scouting that got them Amare at 9.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 03:33 PM.

  14. #1619
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    13,443
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    eh that's arguable. he just picked the safest consensus guy. hard to say how good of a drafter he is when players just fall into his lap. look how he traded up to get Fultz who was the "safe" pick.

    I don't think he has a bad eye for talent but his draft record is vastly overrated. His father and him also did a lot of shady stuff back then as well. It wasn't luck or scouting that got them Amare at 9.
    Wtf happened with amare? I donít doubt that though. They thought they were the mafia family of basketball.

    JV wasnít a safe pick imo. Neither was derozan (who didnít prove much in college and still had a lot of work to do). Could you be a little more specific about his draft day luck? I find it hard to assign luck to a draft record when busts were chosen before and after our picks.

  15. #1620
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Wtf happened with amare? I donít doubt that though. They thought they were the mafia family of basketball.
    Amare was a consensus no.1 pick but he declared for the draft late. The Colangelos got to him first and made a deal with his agent, where he refused to workout or meet with any other team. I read the article about this a long long long time ago, but they detailed suspicious free agent signings connected to Amare's agent and the evidence was pretty compelling.

    Surprised all the mouth breathing conspiracy retards talking about rigging envelopes and ping pong balls don't talk about this. So much evidence of prospects tanking their draft statuses and agents undermining these processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    JV wasnít a safe pick imo. Neither was derozan (who didnít prove much in college and still had a lot of work to do).
    Nah. JV was consensus #4. ESPN and DX had him at #4 to the Cavs. DD was also consensus #9. Ross was a huge reach but BC said Casey said he was the most NBA ready pick (lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Could you be a little more specific about his draft day luck? I find it hard to assign luck to a draft record when busts were chosen before and after our picks.
    I'm just looking at the consensus mock draft rankings. I don't think looking at the results is a good way of looking at this because there's a lot of hindsight bias involved. Like if everyone is saying you should draft X at #5, I don't think you're good at drafting if you pick X at #5 and #2-4 happen to bust. You have to consider the expectations and knowledge at the time of the draft. Like Masai picking OG isn't really "skill" or "scouting" imo. OG was a projected top 5 pick that tanked because he tore his ACL. I personally think that is luck.

    Conversely, I think Masai picking Siakam in the first round shows foresight and skill. That was a HUGE find and an insane reach since he was mocked to go mid to late second round. DX had him as high as #43 and as low as #57 throughout the year.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-10-2021 at 04:21 PM.

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