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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    A lot to consider with the defense. I'm not sure switching schemes is going to make a major difference. The issue for this defense often comes down to quality not so much the tactics.

    We have a secondary that can make plays, but sometimes fail to make tackles. You feel pretty good about Alexander, Savage, and Amos (may be cut, but I don't see how they can), but the rest of the secondary really is a touch on the liability side when it comes to both coverage and tackling. We are going to have to allocate a good amount of effort to shore up both the slot corner spot and the opposite of Jaire. Guys who are sound tacklers should be the priority. They need to take a corner or two in this draft without a question.

    I would put Barmore as more of a 3 technique fit, to be honest. With this defense, I would love to add a space-eater type guy like Tyler Shelvin. But this team doesn't really run a true 3-4 to begin with.

    We're still fairly limited at LB. Barnes has shown the most upside at LB and Martin some promise, but you would almost have to take two LB in this draft. Martin's healthy would be the biggest question mark surrounding him, Kirksey likely is gone, and the other LB's you can't trust. The good news is I would personally grade the LB class pretty well. Parsons, Collins, Owusu-Koramoah, and maybe even Bolton all grade pretty similarly all 4 likely to get 1st or sub-1st round grades. At the same time, no matter what scheme they play they will need to add an LB even if they trust Barnes/Martin, they will need depth. At the end of the day it may be too much of shift at this point with a limited cap and you know they are going to need to use high capital on the offense as well whether that is OL, RB is to be seen.

    It's not impossible to shift but may not be the best year to do so.

    I agree with this. People get way too caught up with scheme. We only play a 3-4 against the run on obvious run downs. We play nickel or dime on 70% plus of our snaps and those snaps are basically a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6 always. Sure the edge guys are considered LB and tend tend stand up, but the only thing a scheme change switches is whether they stand or have their hand in the dirt.

    I think we are underestimating the amount of cheap vets to be had this off-season. I dont think we'll be Smith bros, turner and Amos active, but we can definitely be kirksey and Wagner level players again I think. So we don't necessarily need to fill every hole I'm the draft. Heck, we should be relatively high on the list for ring chaser vets. Not that the NFL has a ton of those, but assuming Rodgers is back, which I think is a given, we are as good as anyone in the NFC. If you're a vet, you might consider a slightly smaller deal to play here.

    Also, I'd love to see us go all in for a 2-3 year window. Restructure Rodgers so that we're tied to him for at least 2 more years. Make our first "out" after 2022 at the earliest. Extend adams to a heavy signing bonus and backloaded deal. Consider adding a backlogged year or two to contracts of guys like Z and Amos to push their signing bonus money out longer. Resign Linsley to a similar deal he signed last time where year 1 is cheap on the cap, 2 is reasonable and 3 (or 3 and 4 if we go 4 years) is expensive. Worry about cutting or restructuring then. And use that strategy in FA too. Sign some 3 and 4 year deals that are low cap hits this year then grow as time goes on.

    Even if Jordan Love ends up being really good, it's very likely we'll have at least a small reset when Rodgers leaves. Look at Rodgers. We missed the playoffs his first year and that was coming off an NFC champ roster. It's likely that happens at least a bit with Love. So take Love's first year as a starter, whenever that will be, and have that be our reset year. If we have a bunch of dead money that year, so be it.

  2. #17
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    I don't see them going ILB early. They like both Barnes and Martin so I think they give them a year to see how they develop. Could still take a mid round LB.

    I think they need an OL, CB, and DL. Linsley is going to be gone, but they can probably sort the interior out with Jenkins, Patrick, and Runyan. In previous years Patrick was the backup center, so I could see him moving back there. I wouldn't keep Jenkins at center long term. Billy Turner was pretty good at RT this year. As a starting RT, his contract isn't bad either. But they still need another body.

    For CB, it is pretty sad that they still need one after all the resources that have been poured into that position over the years.

    I thin they still need a slot WR as well. A 3rd-4th round speedy guy is something that they are missing.

  3. #18
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    To add to a few things above.

    I think with Martin and Barnes too they showed they can find functional talent in the later rounds at ILB. I get they're not perfect players, but Barnes taking over the play call as a UDFA rookie says a lot of what they think of him. To be honest Summer's isn't that bad of an ILB either. He has shown a few flashes but the biggest knock on Summers is at times misses some routine tackles and a few that really should have been made. I really think getting a guy who you know will make tackles like Paddy Fisher would be a great addition to this young LB group.
    Another way they could go is to get an official S/LB hybrid.

    I really feel like CB is a spot they will have to draft round 1 or move up on the 2nd unless they can find a bargain FA out there. There are not a lot of starting caliber corners in this draft.

    OL I'm not as worried about them going early on they've got a pretty good eye for talent at that spot. I think Runyan was a win and think Stepaniak could be a factor in the future too. How selective they need to be on the guy will depend on if they can keep Turner or Wagner.

    With the IDL I would love to see some bigger bodies added to the front. I like Clark no doubt. Keke has shown flashes, but we need a little more beef up there against the run, but also to free up the pass rushers even more.

    With this draft, I'm expecting a bit of the unexpected because I don't think we have a clear M.O. on how Gute draft yet.

  4. #19
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    My point with ilb is it looks like we actually have semi competent guys. I'd rather either take one in the early parts of the draft who we think is a surefire starter or just not really take one at all. Maybe we take one late anyway as depth but I'm okay with a minimum type vet, Barnes and Martin. But if we think there's a 3 down stud available at 30, then I'm good taking him there too.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    My point with ilb is it looks like we actually have semi competent guys. I'd rather either take one in the early parts of the draft who we think is a surefire starter or just not really take one at all. Maybe we take one late anyway as depth but I'm okay with a minimum type vet, Barnes and Martin. But if we think there's a 3 down stud available at 30, then I'm good taking him there too.
    At this point, there is only one LB who is probably a consensus 1st rounder, Michah Parsons, but some really interesting ILB prospects out there. My concern would be if they take an ILB early they are at risk of missing on some of the better CB talents, and they really need to take one in round 1 or 2. Early looks have Farley who talented, but injury-prone. Surtain, but then there is the pack of about 8 really interesting corners who are likely going to fly off the board in the second if the draft doesn't have a bunch of curveballs.

    Early ILB looks are interesting I mean if Parsons is there then no excuse not to take him. But it will be more interesting with names like Owusu-Koramoah, Collins, and Bolton who some have as 1st round, others have in the mid-2 range grade. But with the ILB draft, I think you get good value in the later rounds and maybe can nab a 3 down type guy late 3-mid 5. A guy like Monty Rice I think could be floating around even into the 4th.

    I'm curious what the priority order is going to be for this team. CB obviously I think is either priority 1 or 2, but after that hard to say at this moment. A lot of what if's still to be played out.

    I agree though they have competent guys already so there is no major pressure to take a guy. Maybe even a spot they can nab a cap casualty who we can get cheaper because they want to contend for a ring.

  6. #21
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    Inside Linebacker! Not a chance!

    1st - we are losing all of Aaron Jones, Jamal Williams, Corey Lindsley, Kevin King in free agency.

    2nd - we are cutting Preston Smith, Christian Kirksey, Dean Lowry and Rick Wagner.

    That still doesn't give us a cent to sign our draft picks, so more cuts are needed.

    If we can extend Davante and reduce his cap hit in 2021 by $10 Mil or more, we might be able to resin Lazard and Tonyan.

    So we will need a starting CB, a RB#2, a starting DE, depth at the edge and ILB, Runyan is now a starter on the Oline, not sure who's playing Center, maybe Jenkins and we have no O Line depth unless the other 6th rd picks from 2020 are ready.

    So 1st Rd CB or DL, 2nd Rd CB, DL or WR, 3rd rd same, 4th rd OL + LB, 5th rd RB and OL. We can't sign any FA's, might not have a complete roster.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    Inside Linebacker! Not a chance!

    1st - we are losing all of Aaron Jones, Jamal Williams, Corey Lindsley, Kevin King in free agency.

    2nd - we are cutting Preston Smith, Christian Kirksey, Dean Lowry and Rick Wagner.

    That still doesn't give us a cent to sign our draft picks, so more cuts are needed.

    If we can extend Davante and reduce his cap hit in 2021 by $10 Mil or more, we might be able to resin Lazard and Tonyan.

    So we will need a starting CB, a RB#2, a starting DE, depth at the edge and ILB, Runyan is now a starter on the Oline, not sure who's playing Center, maybe Jenkins and we have no O Line depth unless the other 6th rd picks from 2020 are ready.

    So 1st Rd CB or DL, 2nd Rd CB, DL or WR, 3rd rd same, 4th rd OL + LB, 5th rd RB and OL. We can't sign any FA's, might not have a complete roster.
    With ILB it's really if there is a fit or a guy like Michah Parson's is there, he won't, I'm taking the ILB in the first. ILB not a priority, but Parson, for example, the dude looks like Luke Kuechly maybe KJ Wright most have as his floor. But some other solid ILB's early in this draft who could be day one contributors.

    I agree corner has to be pretty early. I think Patrick probably slots as the center unless Jake Hanson nabs the job.

    I'm fairly certain we will have either Jones or Jamaal back. After Jones hired Rosenhaus Jamaal seems more likely. There is some hidden money to be gained. I would hesitate to go early on any RB not name Najee Harris. I'm for some reason intrigued by a power run game of Harris/Dillon. We could call them the Quadfathers. The play-action over the middle would be lights out. Though Jarrett Patterson from Buffalo seems like an interesting name out there as well. As is Kenneth Gainwell from Memphis who has shown the ability to move out to the slot.

    WR is a spot I think they can get a little later. Last year so much talk on a historically deep WR class, this year is not that far behind, there are about 15 receivers you can argue to be in the top 100. I would love to see them add Dazz Newsome, a true slot guy who unless someone really values him may be there in the 3rd or maybe the 4th, it's going to be a weird draft.

    Tedarrell Slaton at the end would be a nice addition as a compliment. A big run stuffer. Earlier than that I think Daviyon Nixon and Tyler Shelvin have some intrigue as well. Would really like to see them get bigger upfront.

    I'm sure they will find some solid depth on the OL we generally draft well across the line.

  8. #23
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    We will need to add another pass rusher as well. By cutting Preston Smith there won't be much depth behind Z and Gary.

  9. #24
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    I think some folks are panicking on the cap issue a bit too much. Everyone will have cap issues, which means there will be a ton of backloaded deals throughout the league and a ton of cheap vets. Also means alot of other teams will cut guys like we are likely cutting guys.

    And creating cap space us easy. You can turn cap into signing bonuses. You can add ******** years on an extension. It kicks the can down the road some, but we have Rodgers for a short time. It's time to kick the can down the road. And we may not be competing at the top of the FA market, but it's not hard to squeeze in mid tier guys with pretty low year 1 cap hits.

    So Im not sure it's necessarily a draft for need type of situation. Would not at all be surprised if we went CB early, but I'm not sure we're locked into it either. There will very likely be vets available.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 01-28-2021 at 11:23 AM.

  10. #25
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    Like I know it's super early in the cycle, but I did a mock draft simulator. The way that one fell, a few OTs fell to our spot. So I went OT first. Then a slot wr, returner in the 2nd, hybrid S/LB in the 3rd, speed rushing edge and RB in the 4th.

    To me, that type of draft allows you to cut Wagner and resign say Lane Taylor. Start the year with a line like turner, Taylor, Patrick, Runyan and Jenkins if the rook isn't ready or if the rook is ready then turner and the rook at T and some combo of Jenkins, Patrick, Runyan and Taylor internally.

    Also means you may not need an iPhone since the 3rd round safety would be a raven Greene type of player. 4th round rb could allow you to let Williams walk as well as Jones.

    So you end up signing a vet at CB, maybe a situational edge guy for cheap and maybe another DL, which shouldn't be crazy expensive.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugottabjoshinme View Post
    We will need to add another pass rusher as well. By cutting Preston Smith there won't be much depth behind Z and Gary.
    We may not be as shallow as you might think. Mike Smith has quietly been doing a lot of work with Oren Burk who was switched midseason to OLB and Jonathan Garvin. We didn't see much of them because Gary and the Smith's took most of the reps. That could be something low key to keep in mind. Mike Smith has a nice reputation for developing pass rushers, if Pettine is going I hope they make every effort to keep him, really several coordinators kept on board. We may be able to get away with a more developmental guy who falls.

  12. #27
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    I get that free agents will be cheap this year, but we are $32 Mil over the cap. Resigning Davante could save about 8 Mil. Maybe we can save a bit more with some other extensions, but we need $37 Mil in savings just to sign draft picks. If we want to keep Tonyan, we need to save more than 40 Mil. Signing players to Vet minimums is something we can't afford this year, much less mid tier guys. I don't see any chance that we can keep more than 1 of our own decent FA's and that won't be easy.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    I get that free agents will be cheap this year, but we are $32 Mil over the cap. Resigning Davante could save about 8 Mil. Maybe we can save a bit more with some other extensions, but we need $37 Mil in savings just to sign draft picks. If we want to keep Tonyan, we need to save more than 40 Mil. Signing players to Vet minimums is something we can't afford this year, much less mid-tier guys. I don't see any chance that we can keep more than 1 of our own decent FA's and that won't be easy.
    A lot of this off-season talk is technically moot at this point. A lot of places have the cap being well over $175 mil.
    We're at this point operating that the cap will be 175 mil but that's not official:

    The negotiations that allowed the 2020 season to proceed included a commitment that the 2021 salary cap will be no lower than $175 million per team. The upcoming negotiations (and itís negotiated every year) regarding the 2021 salary cap could result in a number significantly higher than $175 million.

    Per a league source, the possibility that stadiums will be full for the 2021 season could prompt the league to not tie the hands of teams by dropping the salary cap by more than $23 million per team, from $198.2 million. Although the 2020 season will indeed result in lower revenue than usual, the potential of a return to something normal or close to it plus the coming TV deals may result in the league keeping the cap in the range of $195 million.

  14. #29
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    We donít know the cap yet. So we donít know how over budget we are. Chill the F out. You think the NFLPA is going to allow a bunch of guys turn their brains into CTE while lowering their salary a bunch? I highly doubt it. Itíll go down. And itíll go down a chunk but it wonít be 175 in my opinion.

  15. #30
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    I'm curious if they try to add a returner. I know Rondale Moore doesn't fit the right build for this team, but I would be interested in adding him. He is small, but he is one of those players who will upgrade the return game. But he is downright electric. He could obviously be the long-term answer for the Ervin/Austin type role but actually contribute to other places as well. He runs great routes, can go over the middle. He may be small, but he plays bigger. Not unlike Ervin he has some injury woes. Moore's health big red flag.

    I wouldn't really consider him, but I'm looking later in the draft a guy like JD Spielman. Who can fill a similar role, but without giving in an earlier pick?

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