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  1. #1
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    2020-2021 Thread

    whatever you want in here. seeing if anyone still visits. I have a few thought on the Jazz offseason as long as im not just talking to myself.

  2. #2
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    I'm definitely questioning some of the moves. We had a glaring need for a stretch 4, several available at our draft spot and we take a C who can't shoot outside of a dunk AND we bring Favors back. Maybe one of those moves makes sense but certainly not both. Any chance they are looking to trade Rudy!?!?

  3. #3
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    well since you joined I can give my thoughts. in order of things happening

    #1. the draft. I thought the Knicks trade was a good deal till the knicks literally got a better deal, but on the whole its a whatever and important for us getting off the bad deals we had to get off of. B+

    #2. the first pick. I must admit I spent exactly zero time on this draft. don't know anything about this kid and what he might one day be. for the current its the 27th pick and in my opinion at that late in the draft just draft BPA every time. there is a 95% chance that pick isn't anything more then a backup so just take the highest ceiling or lowerst floor at that spot and hope you get lucky. I don't understand why people bring this up with the Favors thing. I don't want the 27th pick in the draft, or what we had last year as my backups for this year. Plus you need a 3rd big just because you know that Favors and Gobert probably miss a few games. I

    #3 the 2nd round pick #38. so I honestly didn't think it was stupid to pick up Tony Bradley's deal last year. it was only like 4 mill and likely it didn't matter, but it did come back and bite us when the cap didn't move like most expected it too. However using the 38th or whatever pick to get off of it was a good move and a much needed one. B

    #4 I think #3 is fine because we were able to get back into the 2nd round again #39 with a future 2nd and cash. again I know nothing about who we picked, but its not my money and hopefully that 2nd rounder sucks I

    #5 trading Ed davis with a future 2nd to get off his money. again needed just because we couldn't have him back. he truly might go down as the boat that sank us last year because of how awful he was for us. F because we had to use assets to dump someone we signed just last year

    6. so this brings us to Clarkson getting 4 years around 52 million. this is a complete side note, but here are kinda what the options were

    option A resign clarkson and favors using the methods we did where we lost like 2 2nds to do it

    option B let clarkson go and use the midlevel to get someone like clarkson maybe even just get clarkson, but no favors in this deal and we have to hope that we can maybe sign someone in free agency for the minimum/BAE

    Option C sign clarkson, sign crowder, and pray we can get a backup center for the minimum.

    I have seen quite a few people say we should have just gotten Crowder back instead of favors, but ignoring the fact he might not have wanted to come back for a variety of reason starting with playing time, we would then be completely reliant on signing a minimum backup center. maybe there is someone out there who could give us 70% of what favors can, but I doubt it. now back to clarkson I thought it was an overpay for sure, but like I pointed out we can basically resign him or lose him for nothing. might as well resign him. I just wish it was for either less years/a team option or less money. B

    7. sign Favors. I talked about this before and I know that some might think this is a step back to where we were two years ago, but Favors and Gobert was a positive starting lineup and that was with Rubio so it should have even more space now. I think the money is pretty good and he gives us one of the best backup centers if not the best. A

    8. extend Mitchell. I have seen this torn apart and honestly I agree. We gave Mitchell EVERYTHING. 4 years then a player option instead of just 5 years. an increase to a 35% max just for making 3rd team all nba. a 15% trade increase. All that for a guy who has never made an all nba team and has made one all star team so far. C
    just because we at least extended him for 4 years.

    9. the move that BY FAR has pissed me off the most. we traded Rayjon Tucker and a 2027 2nd round pick(looking like its unprotected) for cash. Rayjon Tucker had 350k guaranteed salaries and we used a 2027 2nd to get off of that salary. the only reason I can think of that you do this is that the Jazz want to get under the Luxury tax and that quite frankly really makes me question if this team is going to be a tax team next year or not. the only thing that can redeem this is if they actually use the cap space they saved under the hard cap. F----

  4. #4
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    well good news for #9 on my previous list, we did sign someone shaquille harrison. I know nothing about him other then the stat nerds love him and his defense is good to great, but apparently his offense is below average. Honestly the definition of him sounds good. someone we can play when we need someone to cover these quick PG's that torched us last year and not someone that might need 12 minutes a night.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    well since you joined I can give my thoughts. in order of things happening

    #1. the draft. I thought the Knicks trade was a good deal till the knicks literally got a better deal, but on the whole its a whatever and important for us getting off the bad deals we had to get off of. B+

    #2. the first pick. I must admit I spent exactly zero time on this draft. don't know anything about this kid and what he might one day be. for the current its the 27th pick and in my opinion at that late in the draft just draft BPA every time. there is a 95% chance that pick isn't anything more then a backup so just take the highest ceiling or lowerst floor at that spot and hope you get lucky. I don't understand why people bring this up with the Favors thing. I don't want the 27th pick in the draft, or what we had last year as my backups for this year. Plus you need a 3rd big just because you know that Favors and Gobert probably miss a few games. I

    #3 the 2nd round pick #38. so I honestly didn't think it was stupid to pick up Tony Bradley's deal last year. it was only like 4 mill and likely it didn't matter, but it did come back and bite us when the cap didn't move like most expected it too. However using the 38th or whatever pick to get off of it was a good move and a much needed one. B

    #4 I think #3 is fine because we were able to get back into the 2nd round again #39 with a future 2nd and cash. again I know nothing about who we picked, but its not my money and hopefully that 2nd rounder sucks I

    #5 trading Ed davis with a future 2nd to get off his money. again needed just because we couldn't have him back. he truly might go down as the boat that sank us last year because of how awful he was for us. F because we had to use assets to dump someone we signed just last year

    6. so this brings us to Clarkson getting 4 years around 52 million. this is a complete side note, but here are kinda what the options were

    option A resign clarkson and favors using the methods we did where we lost like 2 2nds to do it

    option B let clarkson go and use the midlevel to get someone like clarkson maybe even just get clarkson, but no favors in this deal and we have to hope that we can maybe sign someone in free agency for the minimum/BAE

    Option C sign clarkson, sign crowder, and pray we can get a backup center for the minimum.

    I have seen quite a few people say we should have just gotten Crowder back instead of favors, but ignoring the fact he might not have wanted to come back for a variety of reason starting with playing time, we would then be completely reliant on signing a minimum backup center. maybe there is someone out there who could give us 70% of what favors can, but I doubt it. now back to clarkson I thought it was an overpay for sure, but like I pointed out we can basically resign him or lose him for nothing. might as well resign him. I just wish it was for either less years/a team option or less money. B

    7. sign Favors. I talked about this before and I know that some might think this is a step back to where we were two years ago, but Favors and Gobert was a positive starting lineup and that was with Rubio so it should have even more space now. I think the money is pretty good and he gives us one of the best backup centers if not the best. A

    8. extend Mitchell. I have seen this torn apart and honestly I agree. We gave Mitchell EVERYTHING. 4 years then a player option instead of just 5 years. an increase to a 35% max just for making 3rd team all nba. a 15% trade increase. All that for a guy who has never made an all nba team and has made one all star team so far. C
    just because we at least extended him for 4 years.

    9. the move that BY FAR has pissed me off the most. we traded Rayjon Tucker and a 2027 2nd round pick(looking like its unprotected) for cash. Rayjon Tucker had 350k guaranteed salaries and we used a 2027 2nd to get off of that salary. the only reason I can think of that you do this is that the Jazz want to get under the Luxury tax and that quite frankly really makes me question if this team is going to be a tax team next year or not. the only thing that can redeem this is if they actually use the cap space they saved under the hard cap. F----
    Well honestly you almost have to resign Mitchell. We gave Hayward a near max deal coming off an absolutely horrible season. He ended up earning that contract but he certainly had done nothing near what Mitchell has done so IMO you just have to do that Mitchell deal. I mean I guess I get your point about the 1st rounder but it just still doesn't make much sense to me for our best 3 bigs to be trash outside of 15ft. But it is what it is and as you stated there is better shooting around them than before. Hopefully it works out.

  6. #6
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    there is no situation where you aren't giving mitchell a max. 24 ppg scorers all get it. my issue with mitchells max was that he got 4 years plus a player option instead of just 5 years. het gets the full 35% max instead of the 30% max if he makes any all nba team. plus he got a 15% trade kicker in the deal. the Jazz could/should have easily gotten either 5 years or he needs more then all nba 3rd team to get the full 35% max. its just feels like the everything that Mitchell could ask for he got.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    there is no situation where you aren't giving mitchell a max. 24 ppg scorers all get it. my issue with mitchells max was that he got 4 years plus a player option instead of just 5 years. het gets the full 35% max instead of the 30% max if he makes any all nba team. plus he got a 15% trade kicker in the deal. the Jazz could/should have easily gotten either 5 years or he needs more then all nba 3rd team to get the full 35% max. its just feels like the everything that Mitchell could ask for he got.
    This 35% option was added by the NBA. Basically it is the highest pay/respect you could give him. Do you really think Donavon would have been OK with the 30%? I don't. I think we learned from Hayward not to poke the franchise player. Donavon is our guy. He is our only real hope for the future. This was a big contributor to Hayward leaving. Why risk it? Why show disrespect to your franchise player over 5%. Why give him any reason to ever leave. That is a bad move for a large market team after the playoffs he just had. In this market, I would have offered him more if I could.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    well since you joined I can give my thoughts. in order of things happening

    #1. the draft. I thought the Knicks trade was a good deal till the knicks literally got a better deal, but on the whole its a whatever and important for us getting off the bad deals we had to get off of. B+

    #2. the first pick. I must admit I spent exactly zero time on this draft. don't know anything about this kid and what he might one day be. for the current its the 27th pick and in my opinion at that late in the draft just draft BPA every time. there is a 95% chance that pick isn't anything more then a backup so just take the highest ceiling or lowerst floor at that spot and hope you get lucky. I don't understand why people bring this up with the Favors thing. I don't want the 27th pick in the draft, or what we had last year as my backups for this year. Plus you need a 3rd big just because you know that Favors and Gobert probably miss a few games. I

    #3 the 2nd round pick #38. so I honestly didn't think it was stupid to pick up Tony Bradley's deal last year. it was only like 4 mill and likely it didn't matter, but it did come back and bite us when the cap didn't move like most expected it too. However using the 38th or whatever pick to get off of it was a good move and a much needed one. B

    #4 I think #3 is fine because we were able to get back into the 2nd round again #39 with a future 2nd and cash. again I know nothing about who we picked, but its not my money and hopefully that 2nd rounder sucks I

    #5 trading Ed davis with a future 2nd to get off his money. again needed just because we couldn't have him back. he truly might go down as the boat that sank us last year because of how awful he was for us. F because we had to use assets to dump someone we signed just last year

    6. so this brings us to Clarkson getting 4 years around 52 million. this is a complete side note, but here are kinda what the options were

    option A resign clarkson and favors using the methods we did where we lost like 2 2nds to do it

    option B let clarkson go and use the midlevel to get someone like clarkson maybe even just get clarkson, but no favors in this deal and we have to hope that we can maybe sign someone in free agency for the minimum/BAE

    Option C sign clarkson, sign crowder, and pray we can get a backup center for the minimum.

    I have seen quite a few people say we should have just gotten Crowder back instead of favors, but ignoring the fact he might not have wanted to come back for a variety of reason starting with playing time, we would then be completely reliant on signing a minimum backup center. maybe there is someone out there who could give us 70% of what favors can, but I doubt it. now back to clarkson I thought it was an overpay for sure, but like I pointed out we can basically resign him or lose him for nothing. might as well resign him. I just wish it was for either less years/a team option or less money. B

    7. sign Favors. I talked about this before and I know that some might think this is a step back to where we were two years ago, but Favors and Gobert was a positive starting lineup and that was with Rubio so it should have even more space now. I think the money is pretty good and he gives us one of the best backup centers if not the best. A

    8. extend Mitchell. I have seen this torn apart and honestly I agree. We gave Mitchell EVERYTHING. 4 years then a player option instead of just 5 years. an increase to a 35% max just for making 3rd team all nba. a 15% trade increase. All that for a guy who has never made an all nba team and has made one all star team so far. C
    just because we at least extended him for 4 years.

    9. the move that BY FAR has pissed me off the most. we traded Rayjon Tucker and a 2027 2nd round pick(looking like its unprotected) for cash. Rayjon Tucker had 350k guaranteed salaries and we used a 2027 2nd to get off of that salary. the only reason I can think of that you do this is that the Jazz want to get under the Luxury tax and that quite frankly really makes me question if this team is going to be a tax team next year or not. the only thing that can redeem this is if they actually use the cap space they saved under the hard cap. F----
    I agree with the players we dumped this offseason. I didn't think they were going to make a real difference. I see the Favors logic. While most are going for 5 shooters we are not. Of course we got the most open 3's in the Association last year, so let's not crown this 5 shooter strategy too soon. I think these moves, and a healthy Bogey will give us an exciting team. That said nobody, and I mean nobody is going to beat the Lakers this year. That roster is ridiculously deep and talented. Their bench could make the playoffs in the East.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    This 35% option was added by the NBA. Basically it is the highest pay/respect you could give him. Do you really think Donavon would have been OK with the 30%? I don't. I think we learned from Hayward not to poke the franchise player. Donavon is our guy. He is our only real hope for the future. This was a big contributor to Hayward leaving. Why risk it? Why show disrespect to your franchise player over 5%. Why give him any reason to ever leave. That is a bad move for a large market team after the playoffs he just had. In this market, I would have offered him more if I could.
    it could be up to 35% so it could be 32% for 3rd team and 35% for 2nd team etc. its not like what I am suggesting is rare, in fact him only signing for 4 years especially since he isn't Lebront etc is more rare.

  10. #10
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    I forgot to mention which you guys probably know, but the millers no longer own the Jazz and new owner ship can cause so many different outcomes its crazy. he is suppossedly worth quite a bit and he spent quite a bit to buy them so hopefully he isn't cheap.

  11. #11
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    man I try to listen to every Jazz podcast, but i am getting so sick of them talking about the Favors contract like its the worst signing of all time. They never talk about how bad our backup centers were last year(like seriously by espn's RPM Ed davis was the worst), never talk about how we could only get the full level midlevel because we traded our two backup centers, and never contemplate that we might have tried to get Jae Crowder and he said no.

  12. #12
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    5 games in the positives and negatives

    Positives
    #1-Conley has been the player we had hoped we traded for when we got him last year and probably even better. 21-5-5 on 47/45/84 splits. His rebounding is 4th on the team.
    #2 Rudy has been pretty good. great efficiency and I think his defense has been what we expect
    #3 clarkson through 5 games has been worth his contract and been great
    #4 Ingles doesn't look too bad
    #5 Favors looks like the same guy when he left. good enough for a backup defense and lets us run our stuff on offense.

    Negatives
    #1 our perimeter defense is just abysmal
    #2 Donovan has just been awful sans the game against OKC only in the 4th quarter. his 3 isnt' falling which isn't worrying, but he sometimes loves the 20 foot jumper too much. Donovan is dead last in rebounding on the team. he has way to much athleticism to get nearly 2 less rebounds then clarkson is 13 more minutes. Donovan has gone on funks before and he needs to fix this.
    #3 Bojan has just been awful. I expect this to improve as he recovers from his wrist injury, but his shot isn't falling. another guy who needs to be better at rebounding, but as a whole the team I feel like we aren't getting enough boards, but then I see we lead the league in rebounding rate so I am probably being too harsh that includes being #4 on defensive rebounding.


    Overall I feel like if we could shore up the perimeter defense we could be good enough on defense and if we could get donovan and Bojan going we could really get going on offense. tough stretch coming up though.

  13. #13
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    I agree that Mitchell and Bojan have just been horrible. Their shooting has to get better. I think it will. Agree that Mitchell takes too many tough shots. I think that's one of his biggest weaknesses is his shot selection. If he looked to create for others a bit more and forced shots a bit less I think he would be an even better player. Bojan just has to start making shots because he does very little else on the court. He needs to rebound better and find some way to affect the offense other than just hitting shots. Bench has been really steady IMO. If the starters just get their shots to start falling we will be fine I think. And yes we have to start defending better. I also think Snyder has to do a better job coaching, making adjustments and not just sticking to "X" rotations no matter what. I think that is a major weakness of his. He just makes his set substitution no matter the situation. Also never seems to be the better coach at making halftime adjustments.

  14. #14
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    I agree with almost everything except the halftime thing. I think we often do something at halftime that gets us going in the 2nd half. However we just looked horrible out there against the Knicks and I missed the nets game, but we lost by 34 so it couldn't have been that good. I think when teams just pressure us with athletic defenders our team doesn't know what to do and they just start turning the ball over and taking horrible shots. I think the hope with Bojan is that he just needs a little time to get his wrist right and as for Mitchell I just don't know. I am getting tired of this we will figure it out stuff. we only added one guy we should have been ready from the start much more then other teams, but we look completely dysfunctional out there at times.

  15. #15
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    It may just be poor memory but I feel like last year the 3rd quarter was always when we would get crushed especially post AS game. But I could be wrong. I do agree that when we get pressured the offense can look really bad. Still think a lot of that has to do with our best shot creators being undersized. I hate our tiny 3 guard rotation. After Conley's contract is up I think the best thing going forward is to move Mitchell over to PG and get a big defensive SG or somehow find a big defensive PG. Have to get a 6'6 type guy to play in the backcourt with Donovan. Holiday would have been a perfect fit. But that's in the past now.

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