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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    854

    Knicks Direction

    The draft and free agency are over

    The Knicks will be a bad team once again

    The free agent pickups were inconsequential and stop gap

    The rookies are promising (altho we say that every year)

    What to do?

    For me, I would start and give big minutes to all of the young guys.
    Let's see what we have, if anything.
    Ntilikina - 22
    Dennis Smith - 23
    Quickly -22
    Myles Payne - 22
    Barrett - 20
    Brazdeikis - 22
    Toppin - 22
    Knox - 21
    Robinson - 22

    That's nine guys that need a lot of minutes this year, either to develop or to see if they are worth keeping moving forward

    The rest of the guys on the roster should take a back seat - Burks, Rivers. Payton, Randle, Spellman, Jacobs, Noel, Bullock - they are not part of the future, they are low ceiling guys

    No point in giving these guys big minutes to take you from a 17 win team to a 22 win team
    In fact, just the opposite, the more you lose, the better shot you have at drafting someone like Cade Cunningham.

    Hopefully out of our nine prospects, we'll end up with two or three that can be part of a contending club in the future - but we won't know unless we give them minutes.
    Also, what's the point of drafting 18 and 19 year olds if you are not willing to give them several years to develop into something and put the time and effort into developing them?
    Last edited by ortforshort; 11-28-2020 at 05:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    2,460
    Love the post but I hate to tell you this but the 2020-21 Knicks will be a 10 win team:

    1. Thibs personally asked for a veteran point guard. When Leon Rose's UFA/trade attempts looked like his NY Jets' record, the Knicks signed Austin Rivers. Austin Rivers is a starter.

    2. The Knicks drafted Old Man Toppin who is older than the Knicks' last 3 years worth of draft picks in order to produce now.

    3. This team is devoid of consistent shooting, something Thibs talked about during the voluntary off season work outs.

    4. Spacing is a problem.

    5. Dennis Smith JR and Frank Ntilikina are UFAs at the end of this season.

    6. Thibs doesn't often start youth. He makes guys earn their minutes.

    A LOT of learning for everyone...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    854
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    Love the post but I hate to tell you this but the 2020-21 Knicks will be a 10 win team:

    1. Thibs personally asked for a veteran point guard. When Leon Rose's UFA/trade attempts looked like his NY Jets' record, the Knicks signed Austin Rivers. Austin Rivers is a starter.

    2. The Knicks drafted Old Man Toppin who is older than the Knicks' last 3 years worth of draft picks in order to produce now.

    3. This team is devoid of consistent shooting, something Thibs talked about during the voluntary off season work outs.

    4. Spacing is a problem.

    5. Dennis Smith JR and Frank Ntilikina are UFAs at the end of this season.

    6. Thibs doesn't often start youth. He makes guys earn their minutes.

    A LOT of learning for everyone...
    The Knicks have changed direction so often, they're just spinning in place.

    Thibs is a quality coach, but doesn't appear to be a good fit for this roster if he doesn't like to play youth.
    If the Knicks need a point guard shooting and spacing, then they need to get serious about developing youngsters to do it, The stop gap veterans will get you nothing in the long run, they're stop gap. They won't give you much in the short run either, not worth the time.

    I'm surprised people are so into talking about how to squeeze the most wins out of this roster and what the mix of veterans and youth should be.

    It's a bad team if you want to win now. The veterans are mediocre on their best days and the youth are flat out not ready. Thibs might get the most wins out of this roster, but who cares?
    They'll still stink.

    Then only possible way to get anything positive out of this season will be for Thibs and his staff to coach up the young guys to see if we can develop some ballplayers.
    Last edited by ortforshort; 11-28-2020 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    2,460
    What we can all take solace in, the fact that the Knicks are once again, going to be so miserable that the NBA has to anoint them, Black Captain America: Cade Cunningham.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Bronx NY
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    2,900
    Knicks will be watchable. Their better than what their record showed last season. Fizdales coaching just dug a big hole. When Mike Miller took over they were decent. Maybe thibs can push them further.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    The Knicks have changed direction so often, they're just spinning in place.

    Thibs is a quality coach, but doesn't appear to be a good fit for this roster if he doesn't like to play youth.
    If the Knicks need a point guard shooting and spacing, then they need to get serious about developing youngsters to do it, The stop gap veterans will get you nothing in the long run, they're stop gap. They won't give you much in the short run either, not worth the time.

    I'm surprised people are so into talking about how to squeeze the most wins out of this roster and what the mix of veterans and youth should be.

    It's a bad team if you want to win now. The veterans are mediocre on their best days and the youth are flat out not ready. Thibs might get the most wins out of this roster, but who cares?
    They'll still stink.

    Then only possible way to get anything positive out of this season will be for Thibs and his staff to coach up the young guys to see if we can develop some ballplayers.
    If Toppin, Robinson, and Barrett started producing would you be upset? If Knox came into his own this year, would that be a bad thing? And if all those things happened + Frank and DS were relegated to the bench w/Payton, Burks or Rivers taking their starters minutes should we complain? Let's see how good Thibs can make the team bearing in mind that T,R, & B are really the keys to the future. If the Knicks are good this year and show great upside that also makes them an interesting destination for FAs. With $70 Mil in cap space, that's even more important than rolling the dice and hoping for a #1 pick.
    Last edited by oballers; 11-29-2020 at 06:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    854
    Quote Originally Posted by oballers View Post
    If Toppin, Robinson, and Barrett started producing would you be upset? If Knox came into his own this year, would that be a bad thing? And if all those things happened + Frank and DS were relegated to the bench w/Payton, Burks or Rivers taking their starters minutes should we complain? Let's see how good Thibs can make the team bearing in mind that T,R, & B are really the keys to the future. If the Knicks are good this year and show great upside that also makes them an interesting destination for FAs. With $70 Mil in cap space, that's even more important than rolling the dice and hoping for a #1 pick.
    The Knicks are in a bad position, as usual.

    70 million in cap space is nice but what free agents are we actually talking about?

    Considering this roster they would have to pull off a miracle year to entice any difference maker free agent to come here.

    it seems to me to be a lot more of a long shot than getting the number one with this roster, altho' with the Knicks' karma I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either.

    Agreed, Robinson, Barrett and Toppin look like the most likely keepers moving forward.
    We absolutely need them to get their minutes.

    But I wouldn't give up on the others just yet. They are all very young and there is some talent there. Ntilikina looked very good for France and he's still very young. Smith showed a lot in college and as a rookie and he's still young. Knox is still a baby. Payne and Quickly were excellent last year in college and are sleepers.

    It seems a lot more likely to me that we'll hit on some of these guys with patience, coaching and minutes than hoping for a pretty unlikely run to becoming an attractive destination for top free agents with the group of low ceiling veterans that the Knicks have accumulated this season

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    2,460
    The reason why the Knicks need to keep as much cap space as possible is due to the fact, they will have to re-sign some of these kids:

    1. At the end of the 2020-21 season both Dennis Smith Jr and Frank Ntilikina are UFA.
    2. At the end o the 2021-22 season both Kevin Knox and Mitchell Robinson are UFA.
    3. At the end of the 2022-23 season RJ Barrett is an UFA.

    We still don't know if any of these kids are elite enough to keep/re-sign at $30M/season. Trust me, they'll want that and use the fact they're the BEST of the worst as leverage.

    What I like about the Knicks' direction is the fact, the Front Office realizes they cannot attract UFAs and trade offers are terrible.

    Hence they are focused on draft and development.

    It might be too late for some of the Knicks' draft picks but the franchise itself has taken steps so it can be ready to build around Cade Cunningham.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    23,149
    Quote Originally Posted by KnickNyKnick View Post
    Knicks will be watchable. Their better than what their record showed last season. Fizdales coaching just dug a big hole. When Mike Miller took over they were decent. Maybe thibs can push them further.
    You must be drunk if you think Knicks will be watchable with no real baller on this team who is creating for others and making there life easier? The Knicks are the only dumb team that's trying to develop without a real PG on this roster.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    854

    Makes Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    The reason why the Knicks need to keep as much cap space as possible is due to the fact, they will have to re-sign some of these kids:

    1. At the end of the 2020-21 season both Dennis Smith Jr and Frank Ntilikina are UFA.
    2. At the end o the 2021-22 season both Kevin Knox and Mitchell Robinson are UFA.
    3. At the end of the 2022-23 season RJ Barrett is an UFA.

    We still don't know if any of these kids are elite enough to keep/re-sign at $30M/season. Trust me, they'll want that and use the fact they're the BEST of the worst as leverage.

    What I like about the Knicks' direction is the fact, the Front Office realizes they cannot attract UFAs and trade offers are terrible.

    Hence they are focused on draft and development.

    It might be too late for some of the Knicks' draft picks but the franchise itself has taken steps so it can be ready to build around Cade Cunningham.
    What you say makes sense.

    Do we know if Knicks management is thinking this way?

    The Knicks had Fizdale on a four year deal and he was trying to develop the youngsters.
    Unfortunately, Fizdale wasn't very good at it and it all went sideways.

    Thibodeau has five years, which means he should be able to be patient, altho' working well with youngsters doesn't seem to be his strength.

    Not having a good point guard may be a blessing in disguise as far as player development.
    Hopefully, that will give Smith and Ntilikina lots of opportunity to give it a shot and the others will be forced to create on their own which will help in their development. Here's hoping Thibs doesn't waste a whole lot of minutes on the low ceiling guys like Rivers, Payton, Noel, Burks, Bullock, Spellman, Randle, and Kidd-Gilchrist. Picking up a handful of wins on a terrible team seems like a ridiculous short term price to pay.

    As far as the future salaries. The Knicks really need to see what they've got before they consider dishing out big bucks for these guys.
    Last edited by ortforshort; 11-30-2020 at 12:56 AM.

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