Permanent changes to "normal" because of the pandemic

[SiteWolf]

More work done easily. I eliminate 4-4.5 hours of daily travel and have the ability to work even more with that time saved as needed.

See that's a discussion point....because I don't believe most people could honestly say they get more done working at home. Far more distractions, far too easy to take extra breaks, far too many people who simply don't have the self-discipline to truly put a full work day on a consistent basis.

Along with that, there will soon be discussions/issues/fights about pay structures. Companies will realize that, overall, they're not getting the same work out of poeple, have dealt with a year of reduced revenues with no end date currently, and have often incurred extra expenses...and so will be resistent to giving normal raises, etc, or even in some cases look to REDUCE wages, reminding employees of their cost savings in things like child care, clothes, gas, and work lunches as well as time by not having to commute. Employees will argue that they've had to set up home offices that had a cost and remind employers of their own cost savings in things like providing employees a space to work.

[valade16]

See that's a discussion point....because I don't believe most people could honestly say they get more done working at home. Far more distractions, far too easy to take extra breaks, far too many people who simply don't have the self-discipline to truly put a full work day on a consistent basis.

Along with that, there will soon be discussions/issues/fights about pay structures. Companies will realize that, overall, they're not getting the same work out of poeple, have dealt with a year of reduced revenues with no end date currently, and have often incurred extra expenses...and so will be resistent to giving normal raises, etc, or even in some cases look to REDUCE wages, reminding employees of their cost savings in things like child care, clothes, gas, and work lunches as well as time by not having to commute. Employees will argue that they've had to set up home offices that had a cost and remind employers of their own cost savings in things like providing employees a space to work.

I think the flaw in your reasoning is overestimating how much work someone actually accomplished at an office.

On average, people are only productive for 3 hours of an 8 hour workday.

https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/i...any-hours.html


Additionally, though it’s far from settled, studies have shown that people actually become more productive when working from home:

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/15...roductive.html

[SiteWolf]

I think the flaw in your reasoning is overestimating how much work someone actually accomplished at an office.

On average, people are only productive for 3 hours of an 8 hour workday.

https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/i...any-hours.html


Additionally, though it’s far from settled, studies have shown that people actually become more productive when working from home:

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/15...roductive.html

and there's that....as the typical employee's work ethic seems to be degrading especially, sad to say, as each new generation comes in (young pups don't shoot me for that, I'm talking in general from my personal experience and that of people I've talked to about it)

the problem being....if someone is used to a work day where they're only really productive at best half their day, do they have even the self-discipline to maintain THAT amount of productivity at home consistently?

For example, I knew a guy working from home back when I did, different company different job so not like I know what his work day was like.....but he bragged about the fact that he'd (his words) 'set the bar low while in the office' so when he started working from home, he could literally 'hit it hard for a couple days, usually Tuesday and Wednesday, and play the rest of the week'. 'They had no idea I basically always had 5 day weekends, just kept my phone handy in case they called or emailed.'

[blams]

and there's that....as the typical employee's work ethic seems to be degrading especially, sad to say, as each new generation comes in (young pups don't shoot me for that, I'm talking in general from my personal experience and that of people I've talked to about it)

the problem being....if someone is used to a work day where they're only really productive at best half their day, do they have even the self-discipline to maintain THAT amount of productivity at home consistently?

For example, I knew a guy working from home back when I did, different company different job so not like I know what his work day was like.....but he bragged about the fact that he'd (his words) 'set the bar low while in the office' so when he started working from home, he could literally 'hit it hard for a couple days, usually Tuesday and Wednesday, and play the rest of the week'. 'They had no idea I basically always had 5 day weekends, just kept my phone handy in case they called or emailed.'

Thats a fallacy man, in fact people work more hours than ever before, while being more qualified , for less relative pay.

For that reason. , newer generations are trying to force companies to instill quality of life values rather than " this is your job , work yourself to death " bs values that actually results
in less productive employees because it is a poisonous culture.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[brett05]

See that's a discussion point....because I don't believe most people could honestly say they get more done working at home. Far more distractions, far too easy to take extra breaks, far too many people who simply don't have the self-discipline to truly put a full work day on a consistent basis.

Along with that, there will soon be discussions/issues/fights about pay structures. Companies will realize that, overall, they're not getting the same work out of poeple, have dealt with a year of reduced revenues with no end date currently, and have often incurred extra expenses...and so will be resistent to giving normal raises, etc, or even in some cases look to REDUCE wages, reminding employees of their cost savings in things like child care, clothes, gas, and work lunches as well as time by not having to commute. Employees will argue that they've had to set up home offices that had a cost and remind employers of their own cost savings in things like providing employees a space to work.

So what this will do (IMO) is cause those companies that were a little to a lot lax on proper metrics to be the driving force behind productivity. As recently as the past 10 years I have worked for companies that did not have an objective way to do performance reviews. Raises were done almost strictly on opinions rather than actual metrics.

Setting yearly goals that are measurable, doing check ins with individuals and teams so that productivity does not slack. These are the things companies need to be invested in. This insures that the work load does not slide in quantity or quality. I work for a company like that now and it's wonderful. I know my review is tied to my productivity and I can see it at any time in a meaningful objective way.

[Crovash]

I disagree. Fauci says we can return to pre-covid normal (or close to it) once vaccinations are in place and everyone takes one. We can eradicate Covid like we eradicated measles,whooping cough, polio, etc.
Some industries will be just as well off with people working from home, but others require in-person work. Its hard for nurses to do their jobs from home.

You are probably right with regard to day-to-day, short-term stuff.

I’m thinking more of overarching, longer-range changes.

[SiteWolf]

Thats a fallacy man, in fact people work more hours than ever before, while being more qualified , for less relative pay.

For that reason. , newer generations are trying to force companies to instill quality of life values rather than " this is your job , work yourself to death " bs values that actually results
in less productive employees because it is a poisonous culture.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

Well, companies adjust as time goes on, certainly...and this time frame may kick start more. But you'd be hard pressed to make me believe that most work more and certainly that it's newer generations that are responsible for forcing change. Since neither stand is actually provable, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[valade16]

Well, companies adjust as time goes on, certainly...and this time frame may kick start more. But you'd be hard pressed to make me believe that most work more and certainly that it's newer generations that are responsible for forcing change. Since neither stand is actually provable, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Actually most of the data supports the notion that the current generations work more than previous ones.

I know it’s hip for older people to talk about how lazy the younger generations are, but today’s generations are working longer hours, are more productive, take less vacation, and work from home after hours more than previous ones.

[blams]

Pretty sure its easier to be more productive at home.

Depends on your home life of course. Iirc studies show people are generally happier when working from home, and that leads to higher productivity and employee morale.


Its been a huge plus for my wife and I. Some people don't like it, but those people can choose to work in an office then.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[GGGGG-Men]

These days most of what I see is fist bumping or air high fives or even shared thumbs ups (thumb ups? thumbs up?)....and I never really understood all the handshaking in the first place

I don't travel for work, but I've been spending the holidays (my gosh, almost said Christmas...whoops, there it is) with my brother in Hawaii for years and bought my tickets for this year months ago....now here that is under a month away and I'm not sure of the logic...or logistics.

If we haven't been able to get certain parts of the population to wear a mask now, a much larger part of the population would refuse once vaccinations start happening en masse. I'm sure it'll be MORE frequent that some continue, but less prevelant than now IMO.

Remote work has raised a ton of questions. I've had conversations with people about this before, but if you were to truly be honest with yourself, do you feel you get less work, just as much work, or more work donw while working from home vs being on site?

I get more work done from home. Partly because the lines are blurred and sometimes I don’t turnoff when I should. But I also have wayyyy less interruptions. No more endless conversations about nothing because I bumped into a talker in the hallway. There’s drawbacks to business in not having those catch-ups but for the most part they happen too often without efficient purpose and drag on while people rant and rant and rant. Now it’s a simple chat message and Incan manage multiple of them instead of a line of people checking if I’m free.

I even have three kids and still have less interruptions.

Meetings are more efficient I find too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GGGGG-Men]

I for one will most certainly start wearing it when I am traveling. Who wants to spend thousands of dollars to go somewhere then get sick?

Agreed. It always looked so odd to me when I saw Asian travelers and I’d catch something on most of my trips. It makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mike_noodles]

Actually most of the data supports the notion that the current generations work more than previous ones.

I know it’s hip for older people to talk about how lazy the younger generations are, but today’s generations are working longer hours, are more productive, take less vacation, and work from home after hours more than previous ones.

A couple of points.

I just finished a management course and they reiterated what you have said. These kids coming into the work force at 19-20 are the new working generation and their work ethic is much different than the previous generation.

And the second thing is that again I agree with your second paragraph. Every generation seems to speak poorly of the generations that come after them. Personally I think the boomers and their unparalleled greed ****ed it up for many generations after them and then try to blame it on those generations.

[brett05]

Actually most of the data supports the notion that the current generations work more than previous ones.

I know it’s hip for older people to talk about how lazy the younger generations are, but today’s generations are working longer hours, are more productive, take less vacation, and work from home after hours more than previous ones.

Could it be..
...younger generations work more as they usually have less responsibilities and take on more jobs
...less vacation for lack of years at any one job than ever before

[dbroncos78087]

I can say that when we get back to normal, I am going to strongly consider my job based on whether they allow me to keep working remotely. I've gotten used to it and like it. I get an hour back each day, hundreds and hundreds of dollars back each month, and I can work from literally anywhere with reliable internet access. So I can go on longer vacations by taking my time in addition to doing work from the road.

[nastynice]

Big picture: there will be no return to normal.

The pandemic merely accelerated our journey towards a new order, which was coming no matter what, and the principal aspect of that order will be general economic and political policy dictated even more than now by a very few (silicon valley), very rich individuals.

This might be in Americas best interest tho.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk