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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    You wouldn't have reached herd immunity at this point. But I do agree that you'd be looking at those types of numbers in deaths.
    Look at the April growth curves, they would have all kept exponentially growing. Given that NYC had a breakout and all their airports were still operating relatively unrestricted, every major city would've gotten it pretty soon after.

    I feel pretty certain we would be at herd immunity by now.

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    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    As of today, Sweden's case rate is doing much better than it was. The case rate peaked on November 11 and has dropped nearly straight down since then.
    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...n?country=~SWE
    The big question is how have their rates stayed so low with no lockdowns? Did they have measures in place like face masks or capacity restrictions, etc?

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  3. #138
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    Sweden’s cases surge, government tightens restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I am not arguing. I am saying you are factually incorrect. I never once used the word triggered.

    But it makes sense you made up that I did, you flat made up that Sweden has the fewest cases in Europe.
    It’s crazy. Every time I’ve heard someone cite Sweden as a positive model in real life it’s accompanied by a false statement like they have the fewest cases in Europe.


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    Last edited by ewing; 11-24-2020 at 08:01 AM.
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  4. #139
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    All I said was that they were doing fine all summer, and they were, without any restrictions. They are getting hit hard now and have resorted to some lockdowns. It is the right move for them to make.
    They are still doing better, in total, than most of western Europe.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I am not arguing. I am saying you are factually incorrect. I never once used the word triggered.

    But it makes sense you made up that I did, you flat made up that Sweden has the fewest cases in Europe.
    I apologize for using the word triggered with you. I also apologize for not going down far enough on Johns Hopkins' list of European cases.
    My point remains that Sweden was doing fine all summer without any restrictions. Now, they are getting hit hard and they are reacting properly.
    Last edited by catman; 11-24-2020 at 10:05 AM.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I apologize for using the word triggered with you. I also apologize for not going down far enough on Johns Hopkins' list of European cases.
    My point remains that Sweden was doing fine all summer without any restrictions. Now, they are getting hit hard and they are reacting properly.
    You are equating no restrictions with zero compliance with mitigation strategies, and restrictions with compliance to mitigation strategies. The numbers are worthless without that data.

  7. #142
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    Can someone tell me what is the point of this thread?

    WhyTF are we to care what is happening in Sweden right now (or two weeks ago for that matter) when we should be trying to navigate our own little corner of the world?

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Can someone tell me what is the point of this thread?

    WhyTF are we to care what is happening in Sweden right now (or two weeks ago for that matter) when we should be trying to navigate our own little corner of the world?
    To present a false equivalency, if course.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I apologize for using the word triggered with you. I also apologize for not going down far enough on Johns Hopkins' list of European cases.

    My point remains that Sweden was doing fine all summer without any restrictions. Now, they are getting hit hard and they are reacting properly.
    So their strategy was not to impose any restrictions and now they have resorted to imposing restrictions. How was their strategy not a failure?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    the problem is, the way we're doing it, we're doing neither.....reaching herd immunity OR saving lives...at least being able to quantify the numbers
    We’ve got idiotic leaders who revolted against methods to tame the outbreak and now have built in doubt no matter what we do.

    The best chance is when vaccines are widely available next year but even that....we have people unwilling to get vaccinated.

  11. #146
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    Sweden’s cases surge, government tightens restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    All I said was that they were doing fine all summer, and they were, without any restrictions. They are getting hit hard now and have resorted to some lockdowns. It is the right move for them to make.
    They are still doing better, in total, than most of western Europe.
    You said they had the lowest number of cases in all of Europe. Maybe it’s not what you meant.


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  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    You said they had the lowest number of cases in all of Europe. Maybe it’s not what you meant.


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    I think he was meaning cumulative, not necessarily just recent numbers
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I think he was meaning cumulative, not necessarily just recent numbers
    In that case, he’s still wrong.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So their strategy was not to impose any restrictions and now they have resorted to imposing restrictions. How was their strategy not a failure?
    Their strategy was not a failure all summer. Their case-rate/million was under 1500, which is not bad. It started climbing in October. Go back to October 1 and tell me they had failed. They had not.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/b...t&country=~SWE

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Their strategy was not a failure all summer. Their case-rate/million was under 1500, which is not bad. It started climbing in October. Go back to October 1 and tell me they had failed. They had not.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/b...t&country=~SWE
    And the Falcons were leading through 3 quarters of the Super Bowl. If you lose at the end, being up earlier matters little.

    Their strategy was effective through the summer and then disastrous afterwards.

    Their strategy was a failure, and they admitted it was a failure by imposing restrictions.

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