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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Jimmy Butler's MIA team or Giannis' Bucks teams should not be brick walls. I'm sorry.
    Giannis Bucks have been a brick wall the past 2 years. I expect that to continue. Whether you think they should be or not is irrelevant- they are and thatís really just a fact. They have an MVP freak to the likes MJ never faced in his career. So I think theyíre just different for that fact. The rest of the team does not scare me at all.

    Miami not a wall that Iím referring too.

    The other will be Brooklyn with KD and that young but good supporting cast

  2. #47
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    Luckily with Ainge he feels the need to leak everything so we'll get a breakdown at some point of exactly when they think CHA made their offer, what IND was willing to pay, what BOS was willing to extend him for, what IND offered, and what CHA wanted for a S&T lol


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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    I guess we donít really no the order of events here.

    Iím under the impression Hayward had the CHA from the get go and was trying to see if any way Indy would match to see if he could go back home to Indy. Zach Lowe said his sources told him that Jordan called Hayward late last night to get his to seal the deal which means there was an offer already on the table.

    I donít think the Cs were eager to take on the 3 years of Turner and then whatever slop Indy would potentially offer to make the deal work. Donít think Ainge has any interest in making a conference rival better all the while hurting his own salary cap long term unless it made sense.

    Once Indy didnít match the $120 mil, Hayward moved on and rightfully took the money and the guaranteed 4 years from CHA. He wasnít going to pass on $20 mil just to go home after the injury history he had.

    Hayward was in the driving seat the entire time the moment he opted out. He knew he had the godfather CHA deal in his back pocket regardless of what happened.

    At least thatís my take.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Pretty much exactly how I view it as well

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Yeah, Ainge pretty much overplayed his hands with that insulting counter-offer. Unless he was willing to empty his draft pick chest, that was just outlandish overvaluing of Hayward.
    I don't really see how Ainge has a hand to "overplay" here. This isn't a normal negotiation for something like draft picks because it involves where Hayward actually plays and moves his family. They can posture back and forth. But if IND was an option for Hayward then eventually Ainge was getting a S&T offer to say yes or no to, knowing that Hayward was going to CHA if not. If Hayward preferred to be in IND for what they were offering he's not going to "surprise" Danny with a move to CHA. This isn't a team with final say on the negotiation who really doesn't have a damn if they deal player X to team Y or team Z. Hayward makes final call on where he signs and again, he's not going to try to leverage Ainge with where he moves his family lol


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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't really see how Ainge has a hand to "overplay" here. This isn't a normal negotiation for something like draft picks because it involves where Hayward actually plays and moves his family. They can posture back and forth. But if IND was an option for Hayward then eventually Ainge was getting a S&T offer to say yes or no to, knowing that Hayward was going to CHA if not. If Hayward preferred to be in IND for what they were offering he's not going to "surprise" Danny with a move to CHA. This isn't a team with final say on the negotiation who really doesn't have a damn if they deal player X to team Y or team Z. Hayward makes final call on where he signs and again, he's not going to try to leverage Ainge with where he moves his family lol
    Ainge tried to rape the Pacers in the sign and trade offer. Let's be impartial and not homer biased please.

    You know that Oladipo (or Warren) + Turner is >>>>>>> Hayward. He could have countered with wanting picks or something more reasonable. Instead he went for the jugular.

    He overplayed his hand thinking Hayward wanted Indy and Indy wanted Hayward THAT badly.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    Donít think Ainge has any interest in making a conference rival better
    That's what this mostly was IMO.

  7. #52
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    If Ainge was offered any value (ie. Myles Turner) in a Sign and Trade for Hayward and declined, it is a failure. If that isnt the case (and why would and organization decline assets for a UFA that is leaving?), than clearly, the market dictated something different than was speculated.

    I am not a Celtics fan or apologist in any way. As a Raptors fan, I hope for their incompetence. Logic dictates this is situational consequence, not a result of Boston's negotiating.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    That's what this mostly was IMO.
    Indiana is like a 7th seed in the East. Not wanting them to get better at your own expense seems silly. If that is the case, it is ridiculous. It pretty much assumes Ainge is stupid. Which is a ridiculous assumption IMO.

    Brooklyn, Boston, Miami, Philly, Milwaukee and Toronto are all bigger threats to Celtics than Indiana.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    If Ainge was offered any value (ie. Myles Turner) in a Sign and Trade for Hayward and declined, it is a failure. If that isnt the case (and why would and organization decline assets for a UFA that is leaving?), than clearly, the market dictated something different than was speculated.

    I am not a Celtics fan or apologist in any way. As a Raptors fan, I hope for their incompetence. Logic dictates this is situational consequence, not a result of Boston's negotiating.
    I legitimately don't believe Ainge was worried about losing Hayward for nothing (essentially a repeat of losing Horford, Irving, and Morris for nothing). They got to the ECF basically without Hayward contributing at all. There were also almost no reports at all of strong interest to resign him either.

  10. #55
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    Ya I feel like we still need to know how it played out to be sure, right now the reports aren't 100% clear. If the reports of Ainge having an offer where they get Turner but asking for more are correct/held it up and that lead to this signing... Rough.

    Seems like too much for Hayward and the Celtics get left with nothing in return. Everyone in the scenario currently feels like a loser to me outside of Hayward who got paid lol.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Ainge tried to rape the Pacers in the sign and trade offer. Let's be impartial and not homer biased please.

    You know that Oladipo (or Warren) + Turner is >>>>>>> Hayward. He could have countered with wanting picks or something more reasonable. Instead he went for the jugular.

    He overplayed his hand thinking Hayward wanted Indy and Indy wanted Hayward THAT badly.
    You're missing my point. The negotiations between IND and BOS are only part of the story here. The other part of this is that Gordon Hayward is making a major life decision of where to play. If he really wanted to be in IND then he works out a FA deal with them. And eventually Ainge is getting an ultimatum. All he negotiation ceases to matter at that point. Hayward's camp is coming to Ainge with IND saying this is where we want to be, this is the S&T offer, do you want to accept or not and if not, we're going to CHA.

    Gordon Hayward is not going to just sign with Charlotte as a surprise to Ainge because he didn't like the S&T negotiations. He's not going to use where he lives for the next 4 years as a tool to spite anyone. The negotiation can go on for whatever but eventually it reaches a final judgement day where IND puts their last offer on the table.


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  12. #57
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    I think the bigger issue I see with stringing along that S&T chance and not getting anything out of it, IMO, is that Boston was going to be over the cap for some time anyways. They could have improved their biggest weakness through this easily.

    No this didn't lost something for nothing. They lost something for a quality improvement elsewhere. Instead of working on that deal, they will have to hope to stream good enough options cheap for a few years because they won't have cap space.

    At this point for Boston I think and 5 position improvement this year would come from the hope they can get someone like Marc Gasol on a cheap 1 year deal.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I think the bigger issue I see with stringing along that S&T chance and not getting anything out of it, IMO, is that Boston was going to be over the cap for some time anyways. They could have improved their biggest weakness through this easily.

    No this didn't lost something for nothing. They lost something for a quality improvement elsewhere. Instead of working on that deal, they will have to hope to stream good enough options cheap for a few years because they won't have cap space.

    At this point for Boston I think and 5 position improvement this year would come from the hope they can get someone like Marc Gasol on a cheap 1 year deal.
    I hope Raptors can get him on that.

  14. #59
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    The only way I can see that Ainge over-negotiating this would have been if CHA wasn't in on Hayward from the start of things. If it was a situation where BOS/IND/Hayward could have had a deal done at 6:01 PM but while they were negotiating CHA said, "**** it, let's go for it." In that case, the stalling of just taking the initial offer vs waiting opens the door for someone to come in and change the equation entirely because now Hayward's first choice isn't the IND offer anymore. I just find it hard to believe that CHA woke up this morning and decided on a whim to offer $120M.

    Other than that, all the negotiation is just twitter fodder for us to talk about. End of the day Hayward is coming to Ainge and saying hey I'm signing with CHA if no S&T, call up Indy and get their final offer and say yes or no.

    There's just no way at the end of the day Hayward said to himself "you know, I wanted to be in Indy with my family but Ainge's counter offer to the Pacers really irked me so I'm going to live in a different city than my kids out of spite".

    And there's no way that IND is going to withdraw an offer from Hayward and his agent because "you know, we made this offer to you before because we liked it for our team and we hate to do this to you but Ainge's counter offer made us mad so I hope this doesn't screw you over but we withdraw our offer now".


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  15. #60
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    I could see a situation where Hayward had say 100M or 100M as the options and chose Indiana. Charlotte realizing they were working on a deal decided you know what we can stretch Batum and raise that some. They make said push by upping their offer with that potential move to create cap in mind and Hayward decides it's worth it at that point (maybe he doesn't mind CHA just felt Pacers were more competitive with same/similar offer).

    We don't know for sure but the way everything was reported it did make it seem like Indy/Celtics were negotiating and doubt that happens if Hayward had no interest. It's possible CHA just upped their offer to get it done while that was happening.

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