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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    Ouch ainge probably crying missing out on Turner lmao.

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    I think Ainge is happy as hell that he got out of paying Hayward 34 million this year, and is probably laughing his *** off at Charlotte right now.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    They're still going to be a cheap team (from a payroll perspective) and likely in the hunt for a playoff birth. That's exactly what Jordan is after.
    CHA should compete but the easy spots in the east is down to 1 I think...

    MIA / BOS / TOR / MIL / IND / PHI / BRK all figure to be locks to make it back. ORL's playoff spot feels the only one up for grabs. I have them fighting with ATL and maybe CHA if these moves work out to hold onto that 8 seed.

    But all of those top 7 are well run organizations that seem to have bright futures that won't let up the playoffs. Maybe TOR if they really miss on FAs next year and have to start over. But the rest seem lined up for sustainable success over the next 3ish years that will be tough for any of the other teams to catch, IMO.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    Wow, surprised they couldnít find a taker.
    no ones taking that bum at 27 mill per.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    no ones taking that bum at 27 mill per.
    No but how much would it have costed to move him for $20M worth of bums' salary? That would have created the room to sign Hayward without having to push money into out years.

    I liked this deal for them because they were gonna have like $30M in caps pace next year still. Lots of flexibility even with Hayward's deal. But now a third of that is gone because of how they made the room this year. Definitely makes me like it less for them.


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I think Ainge is happy as hell that he got out of paying Hayward 34 million this year, and is probably laughing his *** off at Charlotte right now.
    I think he's definitely happy to be avoiding the tax. That should pay off down the line.

    There's definitely the chance he F'd up BIG TIME here.

    If Hayward always had this offer in his back pocket then there's nothing you can really do. Unless he was willing to take like $20M less to play in IND, a S&T just wasn't really feasible. Maybe he would have been willing to do that, but he did already sign an offer sheet in CHA before so it's not like it's a place he wouldn't want to live.

    Where Ainge might have ****ed up is if Hayward was willing to take the IND deal but while they were going back and forth on the S&T CHA found this money after Trez signed with LAL for less than their offers. In that case not being quick and direct on the S&T with IND could have cost them Turner, who would be an awesome fit here.


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I think he's definitely happy to be avoiding the tax. That should pay off down the line.

    There's definitely the chance he F'd up BIG TIME here.

    If Hayward always had this offer in his back pocket then there's nothing you can really do. Unless he was willing to take like $20M less to play in IND, a S&T just wasn't really feasible. Maybe he would have been willing to do that, but he did already sign an offer sheet in CHA before so it's not like it's a place he wouldn't want to live.

    Where Ainge might have ****ed up is if Hayward was willing to take the IND deal but while they were going back and forth on the S&T CHA found this money after Trez signed with LAL for less than their offers. In that case not being quick and direct on the S&T with IND could have cost them Turner, who would be an awesome fit here.
    I view it different. Indiana was a playoff team and a tough out in the playoffs. With Hayward theyíd be tougher. So why should Danny make them better unless he gets exactly what he wants and pulls enough from their current roster that Hayward isnít going to make them better than Boston.

    So if thatís the case you let him walk for nothing vs getting something but also making a playoff foe potentially better than you.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I view it different. Indiana was a playoff team and a tough out in the playoffs. With Hayward theyíd be tougher. So why should Danny make them better unless he gets exactly what he wants and pulls enough from their current roster that Hayward isnít going to make them better than Boston.

    So if thatís the case you let him walk for nothing vs getting something but also making a playoff foe potentially better than you.
    If Ainge's goal is having this team competing for titles I don't think he should be worried about IND having Hayward. If that makes or breaks a series we just weren't good enough to begin with. He's gotta worry about making the roster we have as strong as possible.


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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    Donít think Ainge ever wanted Turner tbh. And it didnít matter in the end because Charlotte legit gave Hayward $120 mil. Money talks.


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    All indications are that the Celtics targeted Turner, and that Indy was Hayward's first choice. The reported offer was 4yr, $100M, Indy would send Turner and McDermott. Ainge wanted Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. If he was going to take the Charlotte offer because it was higher, he would have done so as soon as he opted out. There would have been no reason to wait on Boston to try and get something done.

    Ainge overvalued his ability to facilitate an Indy deal and got nothing as a result. This is absolute worst case scenario for Boston concerning Hayward.

  9. #39
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    I'm happy for Hayward but this is a shocking move by the Hornets. This could backfire on Jordan. The Hornets are not close to compete so a move like this doesn't make sense.

  10. #40
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    It sucks as a Celtics fan. I loved the way Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum looked together or any variations of that with Smart replacing one. Was so great on both ends and fit beautifully when they played together.

    That said, we only saw those 4 play together for 348 minutes. He obviously wasn't part of the ECF run 3 years ago after injury and he wasn't really a part of this one either. His BOS tenure is pretty much all theoretical with nothing but encouraging signs of what could have been.

    I can't even really lament the "loss" of him not he court since we never got any real games out of him when it mattered (he was a shell of himself vs MIA playing injured, not the real thing).

    It's just pretty crushing we couldn't have at least generated a TPE to open up some more avenues to improve.


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    If Ainge's goal is having this team competing for titles I don't think he should be worried about IND having Hayward. If that makes or breaks a series we just weren't good enough to begin with. He's gotta worry about making the roster we have as strong as possible.
    Mutually exclusive. I can focus on winning titles but still do everything thing I can to not make my competitors better. Turner alone was not winning us a title. And Hayward wasnít winning them a title. But weíre both in similar spots chasing the same goal. Danny is in a better spot today the way things panned out then he would have been if Turner was here and Hayward was in Indiana. Hayward in CHA, NY etc... doesnít hurt us in any way. It doesnít set us back either.

    The reality is, our next chance at a title is with Tatum and Brown leading the way and when the likes of LBJ, Durant, Curry, Giannis arenít as far ahead of our superstars as they are right now. That gap needs to be closed. Dannyís job until that happens is to build a team that compliments them as much as possible, not collect other names like Irving, Hayward, Horford etc. theyíre good players. But they were always apart of a bridge to the BRK firsts which are now Tatum and Brown

    Boston fans need to shift their mindset. Itís not 17, 18, 19 anymore. We know our core, they need to keep running into the brick walls in the playoffs and learn and grow like MJ had too.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    All indications are that the Celtics targeted Turner, and that Indy was Hayward's first choice. The reported offer was 4yr, $100M, Indy would send Turner and McDermott. Ainge wanted Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. If he was going to take the Charlotte offer because it was higher, he would have done so as soon as he opted out. There would have been no reason to wait on Boston to try and get something done.

    Ainge overvalued his ability to facilitate an Indy deal and got nothing as a result. This is absolute worst case scenario for Boston concerning Hayward.
    Yeah, Ainge pretty much overplayed his hands with that insulting counter-offer. Unless he was willing to empty his draft pick chest, that was just outlandish overvaluing of Hayward.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    All indications are that the Celtics targeted Turner, and that Indy was Hayward's first choice. The reported offer was 4yr, $100M, Indy would send Turner and McDermott. Ainge wanted Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. If he was going to take the Charlotte offer because it was higher, he would have done so as soon as he opted out. There would have been no reason to wait on Boston to try and get something done.

    Ainge overvalued his ability to facilitate an Indy deal and got nothing as a result. This is absolute worst case scenario for Boston concerning Hayward.
    FWIW, Turner's name has been tossed around for like a year now. The BOS guys have always said that they don't think the team likes him. I would have LOVED to get Turner because I think he's poised for a breakout if he plays with other good defenders where his greatness can shine vs covering for Sabonis/Warren. I do think he gets a little overrated on both ends.

    His shooting looks nice in the box score, but he doesn't take high volume and the ones he does take are usually wide open looks. To me, there's a difference between "spacing the floor" and "hitting an occasional three". People give Turner credit for spacing the floor but I don't think he really does. I don't think he desmand much defensive attention out there. He just knocks in a three every now and then when he's open - still more than most centers so definitely valuable, but I think it gets a little overstated.

    On defense, I think he's great overall. Can defend inside or on the perimeter. I do think he's a little timid though and seems to struggle to match up with the truly elite bigs. Everyone does - that's why they're elite bigs. But it seems like his 1-on-1, Mano y Mano defense is a little lacking compared to his great overall team defensive play. And that's kind of the boat we're in with Theis. So while Turner helps and is an upgrade, I'm not sure he "solves" our issues defending bigs because it's those 1-on-1 elite matchups we need help with. We're already good at everything else.

    IND has never been a team to pay the luxury tax and they weren't going to be able to give Hayward a competitive offer while avoiding the tax without sending back salary on top of Turner. None of Lamb (probably trash next year based on that injury recovery timeline), Leaf (waste of salary) or McDermott (can't defend enough to be in a playoff rotation) are much value.

    In the end, I think it's definitely possible that Ainge looked at $25-30M it would have taken for Turner's own salary and the "filler" IND was sending back to make it work on their end as not worth it vs just adding a MLE guy. And that's not even to mention our own tax/salary situation.


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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Mutually exclusive. I can focus on winning titles but still do everything thing I can to not make my competitors better. Turner alone was not winning us a title. And Hayward wasnít winning them a title. But weíre both in similar spots chasing the same goal. Danny is in a better spot today the way things panned out then he would have been if Turner was here and Hayward was in Indiana. Hayward in CHA, NY etc... doesnít hurt us in any way. It doesnít set us back either.

    The reality is, our next chance at a title is with Tatum and Brown leading the way and when the likes of LBJ, Durant, Curry, Giannis arenít as far ahead of our superstars as they are right now. That gap needs to be closed. Dannyís job until that happens is to build a team that compliments them as much as possible, not collect other names like Irving, Hayward, Horford etc. theyíre good players. But they were always apart of a bridge to the BRK firsts which are now Tatum and Brown

    Boston fans need to shift their mindset. Itís not 17, 18, 19 anymore. We know our core, they need to keep running into the brick walls in the playoffs and learn and grow like MJ had too.
    Jimmy Butler's MIA team or Giannis' Bucks teams should not be brick walls. I'm sorry.


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  15. #45
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    Hayward to CHA (4 years, $120M)

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    All indications are that the Celtics targeted Turner, and that Indy was Hayward's first choice. The reported offer was 4yr, $100M, Indy would send Turner and McDermott. Ainge wanted Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. If he was going to take the Charlotte offer because it was higher, he would have done so as soon as he opted out. There would have been no reason to wait on Boston to try and get something done.

    Ainge overvalued his ability to facilitate an Indy deal and got nothing as a result. This is absolute worst case scenario for Boston concerning Hayward.
    I guess we donít really no the order of events here.

    Iím under the impression Hayward had the CHA from the get go and was trying to see if any way Indy would match to see if he could go back home to Indy. Zach Lowe said his sources told him that Jordan called Hayward late last night to get his to seal the deal which means there was an offer already on the table.

    I donít think the Cs were eager to take on the 3 years of Turner and then whatever slop Indy would potentially offer to make the deal work. Donít think Ainge has any interest in making a conference rival better all the while hurting his own salary cap long term unless it made sense.

    Once Indy didnít match the $120 mil, Hayward moved on and rightfully took the money and the guaranteed 4 years from CHA. He wasnít going to pass on $20 mil just to go home after the injury history he had.

    Hayward was in the driving seat the entire time the moment he opted out. He knew he had the godfather CHA deal in his back pocket regardless of what happened.

    At least thatís my take.


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