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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal827 View Post
    Lmao OKC lurking somewhere for some pick
    .

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    After the PG trade Ainge threw shade at IND when people were mad at him for not making the trade. He essentially said that he would have thrown the bag at IND if they wanted for him to sign Hayward first (since theyíd have to sequence it that way) and that itís not his fault if IND rushed to take a lesser deal, Pritchard fired back saying that like 5% of what comes out of any reported Boston trade offer is true and snarked that Ainge was offering the rights to Larry Bird too.

    Idk if itís lingering or organizational animosity but that does seem kind of bad blood. Iíd hope that neither side was harboring anything from that

    As a Pacers fan, Iím curious for your Indiana perspective on things. Zach Lowe was saying today that Ainge simply didnít like Myles Turner and tried to survey around and didnít like what offers were. He just preferred Thompson at MLE to Turner, it was really that simple.

    From the IND side, what is your take on that? You mentioned earlier I think that now IND has to ďdo somethingĒ with Turner I believe. What is your assessment of him as a player and how he fits in IND too?

    I personally think heís hugely valuable and would have been an amazing coup. I had been suggesting that Boston actually attach draft picks to convince you guys to give him up via S&T. So Iím personally dumbfounded by Ainges assessment. Am I way off in your estimation?
    People saying Ainge didn't really want Turner sounds like spin. Ainge is getting roasted in the media, and this is damage control. There was too much out there about the offer to think that EVERYBODY got it backwards. And the timing wouldn't make sense. Why work out an extension of Hayward's opt in if Ainge didn't want the deal anyway? The only reason to do that is if they thought a deal was all but done. Occam's Razor is that Hayward opted out to show the Celtics he was serious, and when they didn't budge he signed with Charlotte. Ainge then went with his backup plan, because he's at least smart enough to have a backup plan.

    EVEN IF Ainge liked Thompson at that price tag better, he threw away cap, lost a tradeable asset, and he could have flipped Turner and McDermott later. That would be two productive, tradeable players for a guy who was leaving anyway. AND he had to have known how a botched deal would look. If he was going to turn down the deal, it would have made sense for him to announce that they were ceasing negotiations and letting Hayward walk. Instead the announcement that the deal was off was from Hayward signing with Charlotte. Everything suggests that Ainge was not in control, that he thought his leverage was much better than it was, and that he thought Hayward was bluffing about Charlotte.

    From the Pacers perspective, the company line is that the Pacers are fine with going into the season with Turner and Sabonis. I think they REALLY wanted to move Turner, and they REALLY wanted Hayward. It's a pretty open secret that Turner/Sabonis is not optimal and that we're all-in on Domas. Hayward at forward solves pretty much all our problems. And in Indiana he probably generates $10M+/yr more revenue than anywhere else with ticket sales and merch, which mitigates the risky contract. Given that they kept negotiating so long and seemingly didn't have a backup plan, I'd say the Pacers thought the deal was basically done. And given that the principle piece has ALWAYS been mentioned to be Turner, the "Ainge didn't really want him anyway" spin seems kinda weak.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    People saying Ainge didn't really want Turner sounds like spin. Ainge is getting roasted in the media, and this is damage control. There was too much out there about the offer to think that EVERYBODY got it backwards. And the timing wouldn't make sense. Why work out an extension of Hayward's opt in if Ainge didn't want the deal anyway? The only reason to do that is if they thought a deal was all but done. Occam's Razor is that Hayward opted out to show the Celtics he was serious, and when they didn't budge he signed with Charlotte. Ainge then went with his backup plan, because he's at least smart enough to have a backup plan.

    EVEN IF Ainge liked Thompson at that price tag better, he threw away cap, lost a tradeable asset, and he could have flipped Turner and McDermott later. That would be two productive, tradeable players for a guy who was leaving anyway. AND he had to have known how a botched deal would look. If he was going to turn down the deal, it would have made sense for him to announce that they were ceasing negotiations and letting Hayward walk. Instead the announcement that the deal was off was from Hayward signing with Charlotte. Everything suggests that Ainge was not in control, that he thought his leverage was much better than it was, and that he thought Hayward was bluffing about Charlotte.

    From the Pacers perspective, the company line is that the Pacers are fine with going into the season with Turner and Sabonis. I think they REALLY wanted to move Turner, and they REALLY wanted Hayward. It's a pretty open secret that Turner/Sabonis is not optimal and that we're all-in on Domas. Hayward at forward solves pretty much all our problems. And in Indiana he probably generates $10M+/yr more revenue than anywhere else with ticket sales and merch, which mitigates the risky contract. Given that they kept negotiating so long and seemingly didn't have a backup plan, I'd say the Pacers thought the deal was basically done. And given that the principle piece has ALWAYS been mentioned to be Turner, the "Ainge didn't really want him anyway" spin seems kinda weak.
    Can I just ask? As a Pacers fan, can you offer insight to why Indiana doesn't want Turner? I really don't get it. Sabonis is a nice player, but at 6'10, with limited wingspan, there is much to be desired as a rim protector. Also, both can stretch the floor out to the 3pt line. On paper, there are many indications they should work together. What am I missing?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Can I just ask? As a Pacers fan, can you offer insight to why Indiana doesn't want Turner? I really don't get it. Sabonis is a nice player, but at 6'10, with limited wingspan, there is much to be desired as a rim protector. Also, both can stretch the floor out to the 3pt line. On paper, there are many indications they should work together. What am I missing?
    Both players are better at center. Sabonis is a gifted offensive scorer and facilitates the offense with his passing. Turner is much better defensively protecting the rim. When both are on the floor, either they are getting in each other's way in the post or one of them is camped at the 3pt line as the 5th option for $20 million. Indiana's margins are too small to have that much salary not actively engaging the play. On defense neither player is fast enough to guard forwards. Turner is a drop back big who wants to guard the rim, and Sabonis is a bruiser who wants to push opposing bigs around. Other teams victimize the Pacers by going small, and the Pacers can't punish that on offense because they're playing 4 on 5.

    Occasionally the Pacers offense has flashes of brilliance where everything moves fluidly, passes are crisp and seemingly always find the gaps in the defense. That almost always occurs with Sabonis on the floor. He missed the bubble and our offense was appalling. If you remove Turner, the Pacers look like an extremely offensively oriented team with lots of shooting, speed, and a post scorer teams have to respect. We don't have the personnel to maximize a defensive system around Myles.

  5. #125
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    So with Boston exploring a contract, and Indiana as well. That tells me 3 different teams thought Hayward is worth $100M+?

    I can't see it. I'm probably blind. I'd rather have a bunch of other players. Is it his hair? I'm being serious. Keep in mind NOBODY is buying up Hayward jerseys.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Both players are better at center. Sabonis is a gifted offensive scorer and facilitates the offense with his passing. Turner is much better defensively protecting the rim. When both are on the floor, either they are getting in each other's way in the post or one of them is camped at the 3pt line as the 5th option for $20 million. Indiana's margins are too small to have that much salary not actively engaging the play. On defense neither player is fast enough to guard forwards. Turner is a drop back big who wants to guard the rim, and Sabonis is a bruiser who wants to push opposing bigs around. Other teams victimize the Pacers by going small, and the Pacers can't punish that on offense because they're playing 4 on 5.

    Occasionally the Pacers offense has flashes of brilliance where everything moves fluidly, passes are crisp and seemingly always find the gaps in the defense. That almost always occurs with Sabonis on the floor. He missed the bubble and our offense was appalling. If you remove Turner, the Pacers look like an extremely offensively oriented team with lots of shooting, speed, and a post scorer teams have to respect. We don't have the personnel to maximize a defensive system around Myles.
    Thanks. I appreciate the breakdown. Seems to be some flaws either way, but team is better built for Sabonis if I'm understanding correctly.

    Turner just seems like good value at his contract and the prototypical big most teams are looking for. And he's only 24 yrs old.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    So with Boston exploring a contract, and Indiana as well. That tells me 3 different teams thought Hayward is worth $100M+?

    I can't see it. I'm probably blind. I'd rather have a bunch of other players. Is it his hair? I'm being serious. Keep in mind NOBODY is buying up Hayward jerseys.
    Gordon Hayward would immediately become the Pacers highest selling jersey. Born and raised in the Indianapolis area, high school champion, went to college at Butler in Indianapolis and took them to the NCAA championship. Indiana loves a hometown boy.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Gordon Hayward would immediately become the Pacers highest selling jersey. Born and raised in the Indianapolis area, high school champion, went to college at Butler in Indianapolis and took them to the NCAA championship. Indiana loves a hometown boy.
    Obviously he chase the money than going back home to end his career on a good note. It would've helped Boston as well with a trade exception from a S&T. He didn't do anyone any favors but himself [emoji1751]

    https://youtu.be/tQdZMCt00To

    Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Gordon Hayward would immediately become the Pacers highest selling jersey. Born and raised in the Indianapolis area, high school champion, went to college at Butler in Indianapolis and took them to the NCAA championship. Indiana loves a hometown boy.
    Victor went to college in Indiana. They finished bottom 8 inn attendance the last 3 years including bottom 3 Oladipo's breakout season.

    Hayward was not going to turn this around suddenly or get them a bunch of ESPN Primetime National games.

  10. #130
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    Who else thinks Charlotte should go even farther in and trade for Westbrook? It wouldn't take much ó maybe Rozier, Monk and a lower first-rounder.
    Westbrook would fit well with Hayward. Their pairing would bring Charlotte more relevance and allow Ball to develop slower. Westbrook's contract runs out just as P.J. Washington needs to get paid.
    I don't think Houston would be any worse off with Rozier, who can shoot way better than Westbrook. Monk might be able to rejuvenate some value benefitting from Harden as a spot-up shooter. Either way, they get out of Westbrook's deal and get another first-rounder.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    Who else thinks Charlotte should go even farther in and trade for Westbrook? It wouldn't take much ó maybe Rozier, Monk and a lower first-rounder.
    Westbrook would fit well with Hayward. Their pairing would bring Charlotte more relevance and allow Ball to develop slower. Westbrook's contract runs out just as P.J. Washington needs to get paid.
    I don't think Houston would be any worse off with Rozier, who can shoot way better than Westbrook. Monk might be able to rejuvenate some value benefitting from Harden as a spot-up shooter. Either way, they get out of Westbrook's deal and get another first-rounder.
    I say sure, why not. I'd try to put some protections on the pick in case of injuries and make it be a draft while Hayward & Westbrook are under contract.

    If the Rockets start asking too much, as they have in talks for both Harden and Westbrook thus far, then MJ and the Hornets can just walk away from the table.

  12. #132
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    Looks like a sign and trade may have been worked out.

  13. #133
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    Seems like Hornets are trying to reroute whatever Boston is willing to send for the TPE to a 3rd team to take Batum. They donít need a third team to take the full thing, just most of it. Boston can take some back in the deal too, though the more they do the lower the TPE they get and thus less incentive for them to pay.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    So with Boston exploring a contract, and Indiana as well. That tells me 3 different teams thought Hayward is worth $100M+?

    I can't see it. I'm probably blind. I'd rather have a bunch of other players. Is it his hair? I'm being serious. Keep in mind NOBODY is buying up Hayward jerseys.
    Ive been wondering the same thing. This guy hasn't been the same in a few years now, yet his market hasn't changed? I think a couple of gms have rose coloured glasses on with Hayward. His contract will be viewed similary to Horfords in no time.

  15. #135
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    Guess they couldn't work out a S&T, Hornets are waiving Batum.

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