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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I am pretty sure some people who were convicted of vehicle homicide didn't get in the car with the intention of killing someone.
    You are completely confused.

    And just to clarify I meant self defense is not relevant to most of the charges.

    But as far as reckless homicide and reckless endangerment. Self defense is irrelevant. I don't see a good argument in any way for his behavior being anything but reckless.

    As far as the murder charge. He will likely get off because of his self defense plea. Which to me is ****ing stupid, and why open carry laws are so reductive and damaging.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I think the leftist on this forum is well aware of Biden's right-leaning ways. As I remember the republicans in congress were in full support of that bill as was their agreement with Hillary when she called black youth criminals super predators. Are both of their willingness to use the term "Black on Black" crime when it is really "Black criminals on Black citizens" crime. It isn't like BLack doctors or grandmothers doing drive-by.
    Leftists also like to brush over Bernie voting for that bill. Which I'm sure is why they never pressed the issue in the first place.

    The 94 crime bill is so overblown. And it's revisionist history. A lot of prominent members of the black community at the time supported the bill. The whole thing is utter crap.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    This is the equivalent of "people are *******s to black people so I'm going to be an ******* too".

    I don't get my morality from what other people do. I can empathize with just about anyone without excusing their behavior. These are not mutually exclusive. And if you end up turning into the people you can't stand... Guess what. You are just another *******.
    No, it about following the law equally. Nowhere in that post did you see me being soft and warm about black kids who kill people. Matter of fact I definitely don't want to be warm and fuzzy about black gang members who kill. That is a white liberal bone to pick. If you have them in your community, you would think different.


    Well, continue on with your warm and fuzzy feeling with this little murder. Isn't he 18 years old, a little old to be considered a child?
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  4. #64
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    Like can someone explain to me the purpose of open carry laws? Besides just cowering behind the 2nd amendment? For the love of god.

    Unless he gets caught in a bunch of lies there is no way he will get convicted, and TBH he shouldn't because of how stupid our country is on gun control. And the irresponsible rhetoric that treats his behavior as rational, responsible, and even helpful.

    Republicans are so quick to defend cops, but then totally ignore them in situations like this. Where no rational cop is going to tell you that walking around with a rifle during a riot is an intelligent decision.

    So if I'm to walk around with a rifle. I can claim that someone was trying to take my rifle and use it against me as a plea for self defense? It's ****ing so god damn stupid. You can use the rifle you brought as a reason why you felt your life was in danger, and that is a legitimate legal argument. My brain literally dies when I try to contemplate this.

    I will assume that this charge will get lowered. As the self defense plea will most likely be upheld. And the prosecution will likely drop this down to a lesser crime (like reckless homicide). Unless the defense gets caught with their pants down, and he gets caught in a bunch of lies.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Leftists also like to brush over Bernie voting for that bill. Which I'm sure is why they never pressed the issue in the first place.

    The 94 crime bill is so overblown. And it's revisionist history. A lot of prominent members of the black community at the time supported the bill. The whole thing is utter crap.
    No one gloss over anything. Quit with the false drama. We admitted he voted for the bill and talked about why he voted for it. Yup, those black leaders did as the DNC told them to do and they never talked about it as Biden still champion it before the primaries.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    I admit I haven't completely followed the story but, from what I understand, he didn't bring the gun, there was a group of people who were calling on others to arrive to protect businesses and that group gave him the gun when he got there. I just know that he can not legally own the gun. to own a rifle or shotgun you have to be 18 and to own a pistol you have to be 21.

    With that said I am not saying he was in the right because supposedly the business owner never asked the group to protect his business.

    If he was legit getting attacked before shooting than I can not say he was completely in the wrong a person has a right to defend themselves. he just should never have been there to be put in that situation in the first place. he is a stupid kid and should be held liable for it. If the way I understand it that he was given the gun by this group that was asking for help to protect businesses is true than the people who gave him the gun also need to be prosecuted.
    "I got my twelve hundred dollars from the coronavirus Illinois unemployment cause I was on furlough from YMCA. And I got my first unemployment check so I was like, 'Oh, I'll use this to buy it,'" Rittenhouse said in a phone interview with the Washington Post that was published Thursday.

    CNN

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    No, it about following the law equally. Nowhere in that post did you see me being soft and warm about black kids who kill people. Matter of fact I definitely don't want to be warm and fuzzy about black gang members who kill. That is a white liberal bone to pick. If you have them in your community, you would think different.


    Well, continue on with your warm and fuzzy feeling with this little murder. Isn't he 18 years old, a little old to be considered a child?
    He's 17.

    There's a big difference in someone who is killing someone to rob them and someone who by his environments own ideals is acting not only legally, but with the thought that he's doing the right thing, and helping his community. THATS what I blame more than anything. This attempted normalization of things like walking around a riot with a loaded rifle.

    I look at this and shake my head. And yes I feel bad for the kid. He needed someone to set him straight. He seemed to want to help. And yes he deserves to go to prison. ANd yes he is a danger to society. ANd it's the fault of the ****ing idiots that promote this "militia mentality". The idea that all you need is a little target practice, and you are the equivalent of a marine, is so ****in stupid and ignorant.

    The kid looks cracked out on ****ing adrenaline in the videos. He doesn't have the training to gain control, and learn how to deescalate.

    And now he'll be further indoctrinated in this cultish idea that he is in the right, by even more morons who accept his behavior.

    I can completely understand his point of view when you look at the craziness that conservatives seem to believe this days in regards to guns. It's not at all what they believed 20 years ago.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Like can someone explain to me the purpose of open carry laws? Besides just cowering behind the 2nd amendment? For the love of god.

    Unless he gets caught in a bunch of lies there is no way he will get convicted, and TBH he shouldn't because of how stupid our country is on gun control. And the irresponsible rhetoric that treats his behavior as rational, responsible, and even helpful.

    Republicans are so quick to defend cops, but then totally ignore them in situations like this. Where no rational cop is going to tell you that walking around with a rifle during a riot is an intelligent decision.

    So if I'm to walk around with a rifle. I can claim that someone was trying to take my rifle and use it against me as a plea for self defense? It's ****ing so god damn stupid. You can use the rifle you brought as a reason why you felt your life was in danger, and that is a legitimate legal argument. My brain literally dies when I try to contemplate this.

    I will assume that this charge will get lowered. As the self defense plea will most likely be upheld. And the prosecution will likely drop this down to a lesser crime (like reckless homicide). Unless the defense gets caught with their pants down, and he gets caught in a bunch of lies.
    but, from everything I know he won't be able to get away with the open carry laws because as a minor he wouldn't be allowed to carry it.

    Wisconsin is an open carry state, so anyone 18 or older can visibly carry weapons under state law. But a person cannot have any other prohibitions, such as being a felon or convicted of domestic abuse, to carry a weapon legally.
    that is what the Wisconsin law states.

    he is going to get charged with a lot of stuff and if any of it sticks is going to be if they try to charge him as an adult or a minor.

  9. #69
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    nvm
    Last edited by WES445; 11-21-2020 at 08:11 PM.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  10. #70
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    nvm/
    Last edited by WES445; 11-21-2020 at 08:12 PM.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    I admit I haven't completely followed the story but, from what I understand, he didn't bring the gun, there was a group of people who were calling on others to arrive to protect businesses and that group gave him the gun when he got there. I just know that he can not legally own the gun. to own a rifle or shotgun you have to be 18 and to own a pistol you have to be 21.

    With that said I am not saying he was in the right because supposedly the business owner never asked the group to protect his business.

    If he was legit getting attacked before shooting than I can not say he was completely in the wrong a person has a right to defend themselves. he just should never have been there to be put in that situation in the first place. he is a stupid kid and should be held liable for it. If the way I understand it that he was given the gun by this group that was asking for help to protect businesses is true than the people who gave him the gun also need to be prosecuted.
    Nah, you got the story wrong. Rittenhouse used money he got via his stimulus check to have his friend purchase said gun. The friend stored the gun in his dad's safe and retrieved it from the safe before driving to Kenosha with Rittenhouse.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...se/6354482002/

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    "I got my twelve hundred dollars from the coronavirus Illinois unemployment cause I was on furlough from YMCA. And I got my first unemployment check so I was like, 'Oh, I'll use this to buy it,'" Rittenhouse said in a phone interview with the Washington Post that was published Thursday.

    CNN
    If he himself purchased the gun than the person who sold it to him needs charged. You have to be 18 to purchase a rifle or shotgun and 21 to purchase a hand gun

    An immediate member of his family can purchase it and let him use it but by law it's not his

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    but, from everything I know he won't be able to get away with the open carry laws because as a minor he wouldn't be allowed to carry it.



    that is what the Wisconsin law states.

    he is going to get charged with a lot of stuff and if any of it sticks is going to be if they try to charge him as an adult or a minor.
    I would guess he will get hit with both reckless charges, and the murder will get dropped to another reckless homicide.

    I don't think the legality of his ownership will change the outcome. He will get the charge for illegally owning a firearm. I've never seen a case where this has mattered.

    To be clear I totally think someone in his position should, if we were not the dumbest country on Earth when it comes to simple gun laws.

    He will probably spend at least 20 years in prison. IF not more. I don't think him being a minor will have any effect on his self-defense plea.

    The damage to his self defense plea is simple.

    1. He did not in any way call police after shooting this guy. Even though he called his friend to tell him of the killing.
    2. He didn't disarm himself after the shooting. These 2 things seem to be what a sane person would do (although the circumstances of being in a riot make this a gray area).
    3. By witness accounts they have every reason to think this guy should be disarmed.

    But unless they catch him in a bunch of lies I do not see this holding up. And the prosecution will likely drop it to a lesser charge.

    But the self defense plea has 0 relevance in Reckless Homicide. Which I have yet to be convinced of his innocence of this. And I would love to see an argument that thinks the events that lead to this shooting was anything but reckless.

    And this charge takes everything into account. Including him being a minor with a rifle in a riot. So you can't just look at the shooting itself.
    Last edited by MRSpock; 11-21-2020 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #74
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    That person was charged if I not mistaken.

    All this comes down to do you support armed vigilantism or not.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Nah, you got the story wrong. Rittenhouse used money he got via his stimulus check to have his friend purchase said gun. The friend stored the gun in his dad's safe and retrieved it from the safe before driving to Kenosha with Rittenhouse.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...se/6354482002/
    I fully admit I don't know the whole story so thank you. In that case his friend needs to be charged also because he made a straw purchase

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