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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    We just don't have the players on the DL to get the job done. I still think Odenigbo can be a solid starter but we are relying on him to be our main source of pressure then we'll be having games like this. I'm starting to think DL should be the priority in the 2021 draft. Gregory Rousseau from Miami is supposed to be a great athlete who just needs better coaching. Sounds like a great fit with Patterson and opposite of Hunter. We remade our corners last year, maybe we remake our DL next year. OL looks deep enough to trade back into the 2nd for somebody or use one of many mid round picks on a guard.
    I will probably change my mind because I've been on the OL (OG in particular) wagon in the first for quite some time now but I am leaning that way too. Because I think we can all agree that as of right now our OL is doing enough to allow our offense to win games. We are run blocking great team and still an average to maybe below average pass blocking team. Which in our scheme you can live with that.

    We need a 3T that can come in and make an immediate impact. In hindsight we should have kept Sheldon Richardson over Barr (how is Richardson doing?). Next year we get back a top 5 DE, a top 10 NT (maybe top 5?) which will help make the other guys that much better. You add a first round stud at either 3T or DE and those CB's are all off sudden going to look that much better. I can easily see us being a top 10 defense again next year.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    I will probably change my mind because I've been on the OL (OG in particular) wagon in the first for quite some time now but I am leaning that way too. Because I think we can all agree that as of right now our OL is doing enough to allow our offense to win games. We are run blocking great team and still an average to maybe below average pass blocking team. Which in our scheme you can live with that.

    We need a 3T that can come in and make an immediate impact. In hindsight we should have kept Sheldon Richardson over Barr (how is Richardson doing?). Next year we get back a top 5 DE, a top 10 NT (maybe top 5?) which will help make the other guys that much better. You add a first round stud at either 3T or DE and those CB's are all off sudden going to look that much better. I can easily see us being a top 10 defense again next year.
    I'm still on the Oline train in the first unless there isn't a guy worth it at the pick. And if there isn't I'm with you in that we need a DT/DE but I think our most pressing need may well be safety.
    Though I truly believe we need to go Oline again. Kirk has showed that when he has time he can be pretty damn good and if we can get a top Oline.. with the weapons we have and the progess we will get from the young guys on defense and Hunter, Pierce and possibly Barr coming back. We will be very damn hard team to beat.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    I will probably change my mind because I've been on the OL (OG in particular) wagon in the first for quite some time now but I am leaning that way too. Because I think we can all agree that as of right now our OL is doing enough to allow our offense to win games. We are run blocking great team and still an average to maybe below average pass blocking team. Which in our scheme you can live with that.

    We need a 3T that can come in and make an immediate impact. In hindsight we should have kept Sheldon Richardson over Barr (how is Richardson doing?). Next year we get back a top 5 DE, a top 10 NT (maybe top 5?) which will help make the other guys that much better. You add a first round stud at either 3T or DE and those CB's are all off sudden going to look that much better. I can easily see us being a top 10 defense again next year.
    Richardson has had 6.5 sacks since he arrived in Cleveland, 3.5 so far this year. I liked Richardson but I donít think heís as soon as his contact. He had some nice games for us but he disappeared too often. We should have let go of both Richardson and Barr. Hopefully we dump Barr this offseason.

    Zimmers D has always been able to get pressure with just our front 4 so heís had to be a lot more creative this year than usual. Getting a pass rusher should be a top priority, whether itís a DT or edge. And like you said getting back Hunter and Pierce will go a long ways to helping the D improve. I think a pass rusher will have a larger impact on a game so I would put that over OL on the needs list but it will depend on who is available and whether we keep Reiff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    We just don't have the players on the DL to get the job done. I still think Odenigbo can be a solid starter but we are relying on him to be our main source of pressure then we'll be having games like this. I'm starting to think DL should be the priority in the 2021 draft. Gregory Rousseau from Miami is supposed to be a great athlete who just needs better coaching. Sounds like a great fit with Patterson and opposite of Hunter. We remade our corners last year, maybe we remake our DL next year. OL looks deep enough to trade back into the 2nd for somebody or use one of many mid round picks on a guard.
    Getting Hunter and Pierce back next season will help the D line a ton.

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  5. #50
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    Since Cook came back from injury he's had a lot of touches:

    GB: 30 carries, 2 catches
    DET: 22 carries, 2 catches
    CHI: 30 carries, 4 catches
    DAL: 27 carries, 5 catches

    That's 30 touches a game on average. Over the course of a full season that's almost 500 touches. Mattison has seen 18 carries, 12 of which were against Detroit and mostly just running out the clock. Mattison was getting about 20% of the snaps to start the season but now down to about 10% since Cook returned. Anybody else worried we are going to run Cook into the ground during season which we are going basically no where now? I love Cook but the guy is injury prone and has taken a beating the last two weeks. We need to scale back his touches.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Since Cook came back from injury he's had a lot of touches:

    GB: 30 carries, 2 catches
    DET: 22 carries, 2 catches
    CHI: 30 carries, 4 catches
    DAL: 27 carries, 5 catches

    That's 30 touches a game on average. Over the course of a full season that's almost 500 touches. Mattison has seen 18 carries, 12 of which were against Detroit and mostly just running out the clock. Mattison was getting about 20% of the snaps to start the season but now down to about 10% since Cook returned. Anybody else worried we are going to run Cook into the ground during season which we are going basically no where now? I love Cook but the guy is injury prone and has taken a beating the last two weeks. We need to scale back his touches.
    It's time to start managing him now that we are, I would consider, a very long shot to make the playoffs. Though not mathematically out of it, there is no point in riding him like we have been. Lighten the load starting immediately and start to prepare for next year. No reason why he should be seeing 30+ touches a game, that Dallas game he really took a beating.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    I'm still on the Oline train in the first unless there isn't a guy worth it at the pick. And if there isn't I'm with you in that we need a DT/DE but I think our most pressing need may well be safety.
    Though I truly believe we need to go Oline again. Kirk has showed that when he has time he can be pretty damn good and if we can get a top Oline.. with the weapons we have and the progess we will get from the young guys on defense and Hunter, Pierce and possibly Barr coming back. We will be very damn hard team to beat.
    The only problem I have with going OL over DL is OL (OG in particular) provides no value (no uptick in W %) per analytics. Now, as a Viking fan who has seen some terrible guard play I think we would all disagree lol. Now adding a valuable pass rusher is a different story, especially if it comes from up the middle.

    As for Safety, honestly not sure where the value is in this draft. I know there appears to be a few that show up in the second and third rounds when doing mocks but not really sure.

    I'm mixed on Barr. What we see in Wilson is kind of what I've been expecting to see from Barr but never really have. With cap cuts being needed I think Barr is going to end up being one of those guys.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    The only problem I have with going OL over DL is OL (OG in particular) provides no value (no uptick in W %) per analytics. Now, as a Viking fan who has seen some terrible guard play I think we would all disagree lol. Now adding a valuable pass rusher is a different story, especially if it comes from up the middle.

    As for Safety, honestly not sure where the value is in this draft. I know there appears to be a few that show up in the second and third rounds when doing mocks but not really sure.

    I'm mixed on Barr. What we see in Wilson is kind of what I've been expecting to see from Barr but never really have. With cap cuts being needed I think Barr is going to end up being one of those guys.
    Yeah that is the biggest problem. Being a Vikings fan it feels like it's been forever that we've been pounding the table for a better OL but honestly were getting pretty good there now. Reiff, O'Neill, Bradbury, and Cleveland is a unit you can win with. That changes if we move on from Reiff but for now we're pretty solid. Like you said, a guard doesn't add much to improve win probability. It's just not a premium position. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be high on the list of areas to improve but I don't think we need to spend a premium pick on it. We'll have 6 picks between the 3rd and 4th rounds so it'll probably be better to take a guard there.

    A lot can and will change between now and the draft but it looks like the top of the draft will be heavy on QBs, WRs, and CB's. OL looks deep. If we pick around 12th we might be in a good position to trade back.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    The only problem I have with going OL over DL is OL (OG in particular) provides no value (no uptick in W %) per analytics. Now, as a Viking fan who has seen some terrible guard play I think we would all disagree lol. Now adding a valuable pass rusher is a different story, especially if it comes from up the middle.

    As for Safety, honestly not sure where the value is in this draft. I know there appears to be a few that show up in the second and third rounds when doing mocks but not really sure.

    I'm mixed on Barr. What we see in Wilson is kind of what I've been expecting to see from Barr but never really have. With cap cuts being needed I think Barr is going to end up being one of those guys.
    I gotta disagree with ya there bud. Look at what happened when Nelson showed up on the Colts, that Oline completely changed. Now it wasn't all him of course but that kind of talent or close to we could have in Wyatt Davis, who is the best interior guy since Nelson. That's why even if we keep Reiff, we should draft him and we would set our line up for the next 5 to 6 years.
    But to be perfectly honest I'm not against going BPA either. Even Cornerback I wouldn't be opposed to getting. It just all depends on where we end up picking.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Since Cook came back from injury he's had a lot of touches:

    GB: 30 carries, 2 catches
    DET: 22 carries, 2 catches
    CHI: 30 carries, 4 catches
    DAL: 27 carries, 5 catches

    That's 30 touches a game on average. Over the course of a full season that's almost 500 touches. Mattison has seen 18 carries, 12 of which were against Detroit and mostly just running out the clock. Mattison was getting about 20% of the snaps to start the season but now down to about 10% since Cook returned. Anybody else worried we are going to run Cook into the ground during season which we are going basically no where now? I love Cook but the guy is injury prone and has taken a beating the last two weeks. We need to scale back his touches.
    I was kind of high on Mattison, he just isnt what i thought he was going to be. I think Zimmer agrees.


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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Getting Hunter and Pierce back next season will help the D line a ton.

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    yeah, I don't think many of us understand how drastically different our D would be if Danielle and Pierce were out there.....we gotta have more pressures per sack than any team in the league 'cause we never seem to actually get there
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter80 View Post
    I was kind of high on Mattison, he just isnt what i thought he was going to be. I think Zimmer agrees.


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    I don't know that Mattison's touches decreased because of HIS play as much as Dalvin's. Plus, Cook talks to Kubiak during the game and it could be he's talking himself into more touches because of what he's telling Gary.

    I don't know what you thought Mattison would be, but he's still a very solid back, just not a bell cow.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    I gotta disagree with ya there bud. Look at what happened when Nelson showed up on the Colts, that Oline completely changed. Now it wasn't all him of course but that kind of talent or close to we could have in Wyatt Davis, who is the best interior guy since Nelson. That's why even if we keep Reiff, we should draft him and we would set our line up for the next 5 to 6 years.
    But to be perfectly honest I'm not against going BPA either. Even Cornerback I wouldn't be opposed to getting. It just all depends on where we end up picking.
    No I agree but the analytics (PFF people on Twitter have been preaching this to Vike fans for years) people will tell you that guard provides no advantage. Which blows my mind...

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter80 View Post
    I was kind of high on Mattison, he just isnt what i thought he was going to be. I think Zimmer agrees.


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    I don't think this is necessarily a knock on Mattison at all. It's just that Cook is elite, so when Mattison comes in he just doesn't hit the hole the same way, doesn't avoid the would be tackler as easily. It really makes him look average and to be honest it makes him look slow. I think Mattison needs to see more carries too but I get how hard it is because when Cook is cookin, you don't want to take him out of his groove either.

    But we have to remember, we are in the first year of a 5 year deal. Lets not burn him out already.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    I don't think this is necessarily a knock on Mattison at all. It's just that Cook is elite, so when Mattison comes in he just doesn't hit the hole the same way, doesn't avoid the would be tackler as easily. It really makes him look average and to be honest it makes him look slow. I think Mattison needs to see more carries too but I get how hard it is because when Cook is cookin, you don't want to take him out of his groove either.

    But we have to remember, we are in the first year of a 5 year deal. Lets not burn him out already.
    I agree with you. Cook is just too good. So if Mattison come comes in, it looks like a big drop off.


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