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  1. #586
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    When it comes to Obiís shooting I donít think weíre giving him the same benefit we gave Frank and RJ when they were erratic early on.

  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When it comes to Obiís shooting I donít think weíre giving him the same benefit we gave Frank and RJ when they were erratic early on.
    They missed bc of teammates and coaches


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  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When it comes to Obiís shooting I donít think weíre giving him the same benefit we gave Frank and RJ when they were erratic early on.
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    They missed bc of teammates and coaches


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    Frank and RJ came into the league as shaky shooters. Obi was touted as this guy who could shoot 3s at a 40% clip, and could even up his volume at the next level. And let's not underplay that - does Obi go nearly as high if he wasn't thought of as a decent shooter at the next level? That's why he's not getting the same benefit of the doubt. The expectation was something, and he is swan diving below those expectations.

    As for the excuses, I don't recall anyone excusing Frank and RJ's perimeter shooting. For Frank, it was more of he has good form but they're just not going in. Something has to give. Maybe a confidence issue.

    For RJ, I don't recall a single person excusing his perimeter shooting. The issue was his shooting at the rim, and whether the spacing affected that. So again, not really similar.

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Frank and RJ came into the league as shaky shooters. Obi was touted as this guy who could shoot 3s at a 40% clip, and could even up his volume at the next level. And let's not underplay that - does Obi go nearly as high if he wasn't thought of as a decent shooter at the next level? That's why he's not getting the same benefit of the doubt. The expectation was something, and he is swan diving below those expectations.

    As for the excuses, I don't recall anyone excusing Frank and RJ's perimeter shooting. For Frank, it was more of he has good form but they're just not going in. Something has to give. Maybe a confidence issue.

    For RJ, I don't recall a single person excusing his perimeter shooting. The issue was his shooting at the rim, and whether the spacing affected that. So again, not really similar.
    It wasn't excusing them as much as "they will get there".

    "Frank has good form"

    "RJ improved his FT shooting"

    i.e. reasons for optimism regarding their early erratic shooting. Obi is a good FT shooter and has some erratic misses but usually knocks one down when he gets a few attempts too. There is reason for optimism with his shot.

    I also think you are painting a false picture of this idea that fans said Obi would come in and be some sort of sniper on day 1. He's a big guy who was a decent shooter from 3 in college but was far from his focus. I think he gets a couple years to fine tune his NBA 3 ball just like the guys you like needed too. Fans pointed to his college % as a reason he would be able to shoot in the NBA, that doesn't mean he would walk in day 1 and be that type of shooter.

  5. #590
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    Obi Toppin is such a physical monster that I totally believe with time heíll develop a consistent jumper.
    Remember Patrick Ewing started off the same way. He developed that sick tear drop jumper after his injury plagued rookie season.

    My worry is not so much Obi as the Knicksí ball handlers. The mentality is, ďOh you couldnít make that tough shot so Iím not going to look for you.Ē

    Notice Derrick Rose broke down the defense, forced the collapse and always encouraged/looked for Obi down in the paint. Your rookies live/die on confidence. After a couple dunks, Obiís confidence soared. Heís wide eyed.

  6. #591
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    I really wish the ball didnít slip out of Obiís hands on that fast break last night. He was about to pull some Giannis ****. I just feel like heís thinking out there and not reacting. You could see it on the pick and pop mid-range jumper near the FT line last night too. He paused, and the defender was able to close in a lot closer before he got the shot off. Thibs is a very detail-oriented coach, I think his coaching style could be a huge adjustment for Obi. Quickley is used to the discipline and grind playing at Kentucky which is partially why he looks so much more ready.

    I think if Obi were on a rebuilding team playing 25-30+ mins every night, he would start to play better over time IMO. But weíll never really know until he gets that opportunity. Heís getting more mins now due to injuries, but he doesnít look comfortable next to Randle. Randleís a real alpha personality and I think Obi is intimidated.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 03-03-2021 at 04:17 PM.

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When it comes to Obiís shooting I donít think weíre giving him the same benefit we gave Frank and RJ when they were erratic early on.
    That's because obi is older than both of them.

  8. #593
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    That's because obi is older than both of them.
    He was also an interior player in college. For an interior college big like Obi you look at how good a touch he has and try to project if he can become good 3 point shooter. Based on foul shooting, his general touch, and college 3s he projected as a guy that should develop into a pretty good shooter once it became a focus. The air balls are concerning but some people are making it sound like he was supposed to come in like Reggie Miller. That's not true.




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  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    That's because obi is older than both of them.
    But why does that really matter ? Itís not as if Obi is old. Why does it matter from a practical perspective, on a basketball timeline. If Obi takes two or three seasons to fully develop we will have him in his prime. Not like a player is expected to play with a team until retirement.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    But why does that really matter ? Itís not as if Obi is old. Why does it matter from a practical perspective, on a basketball timeline. If Obi takes two or three seasons to fully develop we will have him in his prime. Not like a player is expected to play with a team until retirement.
    It matters because upside generally goes down as a player gets older.

    He doesn't even close to a nba player right now, and he doesn't have age as an excuse.

    It doesn't mean he can't develop a lot in the next few years, but it does mean he has to show huge improvement in a very short amount of time. Guys his age are considered busts in the nba already and are out of the league.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He was also an interior player in college. For an interior college big like Obi you look at how good a touch he has and try to project if he can become good 3 point shooter. Based on foul shooting, his general touch, and college 3s he projected as a guy that should develop into a pretty good shooter once it became a focus. The air balls are concerning but some people are making it sound like he was supposed to come in like Reggie Miller. That's not true.




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    He has to become a knock down shooter to stay in this league, and he needs to do that quickly since hes really not good at anything right now.

    He had 3 more years of practice time while he was playing college ball, than the most of the other top tier rookies.

    Thats why drafting a raw 22 year old in the lottery was just stupid. If your gonna draft a 22 year old anywhere in the draft, they should be pretty polished already.

    Clearly the scouting staff believes he is still so raw that they can build a lot more off his natural talent. Maybe they are right. But with a lottery pick I don't see why you take that chance.

    We should of drafted Bey.

  12. #597
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    He has to become a knock down shooter to stay in this league, and he needs to do that quickly since hes really not good at anything right now.

    He had 3 more years of practice time while he was playing college ball, than the most of the other top tier rookies.

    Thats why drafting a raw 22 year old in the lottery was just stupid. If your gonna draft a 22 year old anywhere in the draft, they should be pretty polished already.

    Clearly the scouting staff believes he is still so raw that they can build a lot more off his natural talent. Maybe they are right. But with a lottery pick I don't see why you take that chance.

    We should of drafted Bey.
    No he doesnít. We donít have one knock down shooter on the team. why would the 6í9 freakishly fast high flyer have to be a knock down shooter?


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  13. #598
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    Main thing I donít like about him, well, besides the outside shooting..

    He really doesnít have polished moves inside, for a guy thatís supposed to be an interior monster. He gets cut off a lot of the time he tries to go baseline. And heís not a big shot creator for himself. In the right system, as a cutter/finisher, he would get buckets. But so do a lot of guys. Weíll see

  14. #599
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Main thing I donít like about him, well, besides the outside shooting..

    He really doesnít have polished moves inside, for a guy thatís supposed to be an interior monster. He gets cut off a lot of the time he tries to go baseline. And heís not a big shot creator for himself. In the right system, as a cutter/finisher, he would get buckets. But so do a lot of guys. Weíll see
    That is fair. He has been pretty good in the post and done well the couple times he attacked close outs. Those drives baseline have failed though and in general he hasn't created many
    opportunities for himself
    Last edited by ewing; 03-03-2021 at 11:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    No he doesnít. We donít have one knock down shooter on the team. why would the 6í9 freakishly fast high flyer have to be a knock down shooter?


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    Because he plays a big man position and isn't good at doing anything big men do.

    So if he can't knock down the 3, what reason should he be on the court?

    You can't play in the nba if you aren't good at anything consistently. DSJ is every bit the athletic specimen obi is, and more talented, but hes not good at anything and teams have pretty much moved on from him already.

    Again, what can you do with a guy who isn't good at anything? nothing....

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