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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Itís gonna be both. Heís literally the most known/quantifiable entity in this draft which was part of the appeal, it was like zero guesswork picking him.

    He should be great on offense. And he should be horrid on defense. I genuinely think weíre going to want Mitch chasing stretch fours at the perimeter over Obi. Either way Mitchís foul troubles are not going to get better having to work with Obi on that end. But this is a problem for Thibs to decode.
    You see it work though defensively with lots of teams, which again was Smood's point. You just usually see it with stretch bigs in today's era, where they are "hidden" or "covered for" by a defensive anchor at the 5, sometimes on elite defensive teams. It just gets talked about as a defense-killer when the 4 man with bad defense in question can actually score in the paint.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    You see it work though defensively with lots of teams, which again was Smood's point. You just usually see it with stretch bigs in today's era, where they are "hidden" or "covered for" by a defensive anchor at the 5, sometimes on elite defensive teams. It just gets talked about as a defense-killer when the 4 man with bad defense in question can actually score in the paint.
    Yeah and our 5 is already super foul prone. There are just things about the fit that are not completely ideal - one being Mitch being completely unable and unwilling to shoot a jumper. If he can even get to Embiid level shooting (including threes) that would open up the floor big time for us.

  3. #228
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Obi is definitely going to be a modern offensive 4. I think Dayton had Obi bulk up to play the 5 and that might have hampered his mobility. Everything about his game looks better here than college (quickness, shot fluidity, handles, etc). Combine that with his finishing ability and expect him to be highly productive overall.

    He said the guy he models his game after the most is AD which explains why he is trying to show his abilities off the dribble more. Obi just needs to continue to improve his instincts and technique on the defensive end. I believe in his work ethic.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 11-24-2020 at 07:20 PM.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Looks like Chris Bosh's skillset with Amare's mobility. He looks more mobile to me than people have been portraying but you can definitely see a little bit of east-west stiffness ala Amare.
    If he can stretch the floor consistently and become a reliable 3 pt shooter heís going to be dangerous. Heís a smart passer idk if he can develop a handle to be a point forward but the tools are there. I still question the fit with Mitch but weíll see I hope this kid pans out

  5. #230
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    Iím not even gonna get down on this anymore. Just going to hope we get lucky for a change. Whatís done is done. Going to hope that him Mitch and RJ are core pieces, and the FO gets them the help they need

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Iím not even gonna get down on this anymore. Just going to hope we get lucky for a change. Whatís done is done. Going to hope that him Mitch and RJ are core pieces, and the FO gets them the help they need
    I have faith in the three of them. My biggest hope is DSJ & Frank come in with a chip on their shoulder and take the backcourt spots. That would be awesome, especially considering the two of them have had their stories intertwined since draft night. Let them combine superpowers and go balls to the wall with something to prove. Would be inspirational honestly.

  7. #232
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    Hereís something that canít be argued:

    Obi is one of the few players in the draft with legitimate STAR potential. Yes he is older, and yes his defense needs a lot of work, but no other big in the draft has his ability and skill on offense.

    If he can somehow figure it out on defense, he would project to be a complete player at the 4. But even if he doesnít, he should still be a useful player with a very high floor. Iím glad we took the BPA.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Hereís something that canít be argued:

    Obi is one of the few players in the draft with legitimate STAR potential. Yes he is older, and yes his defense needs a lot of work, but no other big in the draft has his ability and skill on offense.

    If he can somehow figure it out on defense, he would project to be a complete player at the 4. But even if he doesnít, he should still be a useful player with a very high floor. Iím glad we took the BPA.
    I agree. I think youíre going to see pretty quickly though that itís not about him ďfiguring it outĒ on defense. Heís a smart kid & a smart player. Heís not like lost on d and he gives effort.

    Itís simply a physical limitation. Heís not built to chase guys or stay in front of guys 30 feet from the basket. He literally canít do it. When you see him try to drop itís all going to become crystal clear, itís just what weíll have to live with with him, every player has their weaknesses and this is 100% his.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I have faith in the three of them. My biggest hope is DSJ & Frank come in with a chip on their shoulder and take the backcourt spots. That would be awesome, especially considering the two of them have had their stories intertwined since draft night. Let them combine superpowers and go balls to the wall with something to prove. Would be inspirational honestly.
    I love your story..

    But I suspect the real one is going to be heavy doses of Payton, Rivers, Burks, and Bullock. And endless threads of us all arguing

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I love your story..

    But I suspect the real one is going to be heavy doses of Payton, Rivers, Burks, and Bullock. And endless threads of us all arguing
    Haha itís a good story!

    And yes I unfortunately agree. Although Iíd argue three of those guys can shoot so I understand why they get minutes. Then thereís the other guy...

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I agree. I think youíre going to see pretty quickly though that itís not about him ďfiguring it outĒ on defense. Heís a smart kid & a smart player. Heís not like lost on d and he gives effort.

    Itís simply a physical limitation. Heís not built to chase guys or stay in front of guys 30 feet from the basket. He literally canít do it. When you see him try to drop itís all going to become crystal clear, itís just what weíll have to live with with him, every player has their weaknesses and this is 100% his.
    I donít agree. Part of his issues on defense is late rotations and I think his effort was lacking as well to stay out of foul trouble. I expect Thibs will have him more engaged throughout as he continues to improve his awareness off-ball and his technique. Obi has great burst and speed to make up for some mistakes, but his lateral limitations will limit his defensive upside. Thatís where technique and using his length to contest become super important.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    I donít agree. Part of his issues on defense is late rotations and I think his effort was lacking as well to stay out of foul trouble. I expect Thibs will have him more engaged throughout as he continues to improve his awareness off-ball and his technique. Obi has great burst and speed to make up for some mistakes, but his lateral limitations will limit his defensive upside. Thatís where technique and using his length to contest become super important.
    Have you watched him try to backpedal or leap back in drop coverage?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    You see it work though defensively with lots of teams, which again was Smood's point. You just usually see it with stretch bigs in today's era, where they are "hidden" or "covered for" by a defensive anchor at the 5, sometimes on elite defensive teams. It just gets talked about as a defense-killer when the 4 man with bad defense in question can actually score in the paint.
    Miami is the best example of this. Robinson, Leonard, and Olynyk are all terrible on defense, but they find a way to have one of the best defenses in the league. They even do it with one of these players and Herro on the court at the same time.

    Draymond has covered up for the Warriors Cs for years. Siakam has done it for Gasol the last couple of years. Gobert with Bogdanovic.

    There are way too many examples. Put Jonathan Isaac or Siakam on the Timberwolves and KAT's defensive short comings likely disappear or isn't as much of an issue. That's also similar to what Denver did with Jokic and Grant.

    How the rest of the roster is constructed matters a lot.
    Last edited by smood999; 11-24-2020 at 08:26 PM.

  14. #239
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    One player doesnt cover up for a horrible defensive big. The nba court is too spread out for that in todays game.

    Really it takes a good defensive team to cover up for those guys.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    One player doesnt cover up for a horrible defensive big. The nba court is too spread out for that in todays game.

    Really it takes a good defensive team to cover up for those guys.
    Fair point and I agree, I think the idea is that you CAN hide bad defenders up front and teams do all the time. Obi is not a death sentence for our teams defense in the future. I think we have the pieces to be a really good defensive team as soon as this year actually.

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