Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

[flimflamman]

[QUOTE=ShadyOne;33851574]

Like I said..

I’m just not spending the time to look it up, or look for the post(s). It’s a subject we have 100% discussed. I know what the results were, I’m confident lol. You don’t believe it, that’s fine. I do recall Kaminsky, Hansbrough among them..

And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.

[ShadyOne]

[QUOTE=flimflamman;33851633]

And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.

Since 2010

Evan Turner
Wesley Johnson
Ekpe Udoh
Cole Aldrich
Larry Sanders
Jimmer Fredette
Marcus Morris
Markieff Morris
John Henson
McCollum
Carter-Williams
Kelly Olynyk
Doug McDermott
Dario Saric
Willie Cauley Stein
Frank Kaminsky
Buddy Hield
Denzel Valentine
Kris Dunn



There’s 2010-14 to start

[ewing]

[QUOTE=flimflamman;33851633]

And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.

I do remember a list of 4 year guys that went in the lottery and it wasn’t a successful list. The thing with that IMO is if you look at the list of guys taken 8th its not a very successful group either. See guys drafted 8th below.
Is the average 22 year lottery pick worse then the average 8th pick maybe seems a little like numerology to me though

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/hi...pick-number-8/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[flimflamman]

[QUOTE=ShadyOne;33851677]

Since 2010

Evan Turner
Wesley Johnson
Ekpe Udoh
Cole Aldrich
Larry Sanders
Jimmer Fredette
Marcus Morris
Markieff Morris
John Henson

There’s 2010-12, to start

What is this a list proof of ? Specify for me please.

[ShadyOne]

[QUOTE=flimflamman;33851688]

What is this a list proof of ? Specify for me please.

I’m updating it as I have time...

That’s every 22 year old or older picked in the lottery

[flimflamman]

Again I am not staring age is not an issue. I am talking about production for the time of the contract for the team. You have seen the production Frank and Knox have provided over their contracts so far. The team is paying them for that development. If Obi does the same over his rookie contract what's the difference? The individual player if he starts off late is the one who loses the money. But as far as performance it's really not that important or as significant as people are making out.

[ShadyOne]

Again I am not staring age is not an issue. I am talking about production for the time of the contract for the team. You have seen the production Frank and Knox have provided over their contracts so far. The team is paying them for that development. If Obi does the same over his rookie contract what's the difference? The individual player if he starts off late is the one who loses the money. But as far as performance it's really not that important or as significant as people are making out.

You just were complaining about “prove your claims of older lottery picks sucking”

So far I’m up to 2016, zero all-star nods

[flimflamman]

You just were complaining about “prove your claims of older lottery picks sucking”

So far I’m up to 2016, zero all-star nods

What have you proven in your opinion so far ? I see names. How about a comparison between the lower classman also drafted.

[ShadyOne]

What have you proven in your opinion so far ? I see names. How about a comparison between the lower classman also drafted.

Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...

In my opinion, the facts are you didn’t have one single all star nod from any player 22 or over in the lottery, from 2010 to 2016. 0% odds...

I’ll stop now, as you’re already spinning it.

[Bubba313]

Here's a post I made in November right after we drafted Obi. Look at the below list and tell me Obi has good odds of turning this around. You can argue he's an exception, but right now history is against him.

A list of the players 22 or older who have been picked in the top 20 since 2008 (from an article out in the Athletic today):

Tyler Hansborough
13th — 2009

Buddy Hield
6th — 2016

Adrien Payne
15th — 2014

Cameron Johnson
11th — 2019

Delon Wright
20th — 2015

Ekpe Udoh
6th — 2010

Brandon Rush
13th — 2008

Wesley Johnson
4th — 2010

Jerian Grant
19th — 2015

Denzel Valentine
14th — 2016

Andrew Nicholson
19th — 2012

Doug McDermott
11th — 2014

Tyler Zeller
17th — 2012

Hasheem Thabeet
2nd — 2009

James Johnson
16th — 2009

Jimmer Fredette
10th — 2011

Matisse Thybulle
20th — 2019

Kris Dunn
5th — 2016

Taureen Prince
12th — 2016

Justin Jackson
15th — 2017

Frank Kaminsky
9th — 2015

Kelly Olynyk
13th — 2013

Eric Maynor
20th — 2009

Terrance Williams
11th — 2009

[flimflamman]

Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...

The NBA should do a tracking study of the relative success of players drafted at each age 18, 19, 20 ,21, 22. Then compare the productivity of each age group over the four years of the rookie contract. That would be interesting. Also how many make it to the second contract. Then we can assign numerical values to the expectations for a player controlled by age.

[Bubba313]

The NBA should do a tracking study of the relative success of players drafted at each age 18, 19, 20 ,21, 22. Then compare the productivity of each age group over the four years of the rookie contract. That would be interesting. Also how many make it to the second contract. Then we can assign numerical values to the expectations for a player controlled by age.

You're assuming that older players picked in the lottery offer a better return on investment right away because they're "more NBA ready," but that's often not the case. The correlation is pretty simple: the higher you're picked, the more likely you are to succeed and provide return on investment - whether immediately or in the future.

And the players who often get picked highest in the draft are underclassmen because there's no reason for a freshman or sophomore to stay in school when they're one of the best college players in the country.

[flimflamman]

Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...

In my opinion, the facts are you didn’t have one single all star nod from any player 22 or over in the lottery, from 2010 to 2016. 0% odds...

I’ll stop now, as you’re already spinning it.

What about Damian Lilarrd ? Whose spinning anything. I am asking critical questions. Also being an all-star is not the sole measure. How many of the younger of the younger players are out of the league as well ? The type of questions involve comparing various factors. Now what I find interesting is the NBA doesn't seem to quantify this in too much detail.

[flimflamman]

You're assuming that older players picked in the lottery offer a better return on investment right away because they're "more NBA ready," but that's often not the case. The correlation is pretty simple: the higher you're picked, the more likely you are to succeed and provide return on investment - whether immediately or in the future.

And the players who often get picked highest in the draft are underclassmen because there's no reason for a freshman or sophomore to stay in school when they're one of the best college players in the country.

That was not my assertion at all.

[ShadyOne]

What about Damian Lilarrd ? Whose spinning anything. I am asking critical questions. Also being an all-star is not the sole measure. How many of the younger of the younger players are out of the league as well ? The type of questions involve comparing various factors. Now what I find interesting is the NBA doesn't seem to quantify this in too much detail.

Fair..

Missed one. Skimming through on my phone at work. I’d say it’s a pretty fair conclusion you’re very unlikely to draft a star