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  1. #631
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    [QUOTE=ShadyOne;33851574]
    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post

    Like I said..

    Iím just not spending the time to look it up, or look for the post(s). Itís a subject we have 100% discussed. I know what the results were, Iím confident lol. You donít believe it, thatís fine. I do recall Kaminsky, Hansbrough among them..
    And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.
    Last edited by flimflamman; 03-04-2021 at 04:10 PM.

  2. #632
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    [QUOTE=flimflamman;33851633]
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post

    And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.
    Since 2010

    Evan Turner
    Wesley Johnson
    Ekpe Udoh
    Cole Aldrich
    Larry Sanders
    Jimmer Fredette
    Marcus Morris
    Markieff Morris
    John Henson
    McCollum
    Carter-Williams
    Kelly Olynyk
    Doug McDermott
    Dario Saric
    Willie Cauley Stein
    Frank Kaminsky
    Buddy Hield
    Denzel Valentine
    Kris Dunn



    Thereís 2010-14 to start
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 03-04-2021 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #633
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    Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

    [QUOTE=flimflamman;33851633]
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post

    And how many 18 years never make it. I mean people are repeating this and that like fact. But can't provide the receipts. Then when asked to support their arguments they say it's been proven. That's cool. I guess. So someone just keeps parroting arguments that others make. Yet, what really is the differences here ? Let's break it down by the numbers if they legitimately exist.
    I do remember a list of 4 year guys that went in the lottery and it wasnít a successful list. The thing with that IMO is if you look at the list of guys taken 8th its not a very successful group either. See guys drafted 8th below.
    Is the average 22 year lottery pick worse then the average 8th pick maybe seems a little like numerology to me though

    http://www.basketballinsiders.com/hi...pick-number-8/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ewing; 03-04-2021 at 04:51 PM.
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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #634
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    [QUOTE=ShadyOne;33851677]
    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post

    Since 2010

    Evan Turner
    Wesley Johnson
    Ekpe Udoh
    Cole Aldrich
    Larry Sanders
    Jimmer Fredette
    Marcus Morris
    Markieff Morris
    John Henson

    Thereís 2010-12, to start
    What is this a list proof of ? Specify for me please.

  5. #635
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    [QUOTE=flimflamman;33851688]
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post

    What is this a list proof of ? Specify for me please.
    Iím updating it as I have time...

    Thatís every 22 year old or older picked in the lottery

  6. #636
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    Again I am not staring age is not an issue. I am talking about production for the time of the contract for the team. You have seen the production Frank and Knox have provided over their contracts so far. The team is paying them for that development. If Obi does the same over his rookie contract what's the difference? The individual player if he starts off late is the one who loses the money. But as far as performance it's really not that important or as significant as people are making out.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    Again I am not staring age is not an issue. I am talking about production for the time of the contract for the team. You have seen the production Frank and Knox have provided over their contracts so far. The team is paying them for that development. If Obi does the same over his rookie contract what's the difference? The individual player if he starts off late is the one who loses the money. But as far as performance it's really not that important or as significant as people are making out.
    You just were complaining about ďprove your claims of older lottery picks suckingĒ

    So far Iím up to 2016, zero all-star nods

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    You just were complaining about ďprove your claims of older lottery picks suckingĒ

    So far Iím up to 2016, zero all-star nods
    What have you proven in your opinion so far ? I see names. How about a comparison between the lower classman also drafted.

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    What have you proven in your opinion so far ? I see names. How about a comparison between the lower classman also drafted.
    Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...

    In my opinion, the facts are you didnít have one single all star nod from any player 22 or over in the lottery, from 2010 to 2016. 0% odds...

    Iíll stop now, as youíre already spinning it.
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 03-04-2021 at 05:10 PM.

  10. #640
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    Here's a post I made in November right after we drafted Obi. Look at the below list and tell me Obi has good odds of turning this around. You can argue he's an exception, but right now history is against him.

    A list of the players 22 or older who have been picked in the top 20 since 2008 (from an article out in the Athletic today):

    Tyler Hansborough
    13th ó 2009

    Buddy Hield
    6th ó 2016

    Adrien Payne
    15th ó 2014

    Cameron Johnson
    11th ó 2019

    Delon Wright
    20th ó 2015

    Ekpe Udoh
    6th ó 2010

    Brandon Rush
    13th ó 2008

    Wesley Johnson
    4th ó 2010

    Jerian Grant
    19th ó 2015

    Denzel Valentine
    14th ó 2016

    Andrew Nicholson
    19th ó 2012

    Doug McDermott
    11th ó 2014

    Tyler Zeller
    17th ó 2012

    Hasheem Thabeet
    2nd ó 2009

    James Johnson
    16th ó 2009

    Jimmer Fredette
    10th ó 2011

    Matisse Thybulle
    20th ó 2019

    Kris Dunn
    5th ó 2016

    Taureen Prince
    12th ó 2016

    Justin Jackson
    15th ó 2017

    Frank Kaminsky
    9th ó 2015

    Kelly Olynyk
    13th ó 2013

    Eric Maynor
    20th ó 2009

    Terrance Williams
    11th ó 2009

  11. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...
    The NBA should do a tracking study of the relative success of players drafted at each age 18, 19, 20 ,21, 22. Then compare the productivity of each age group over the four years of the rookie contract. That would be interesting. Also how many make it to the second contract. Then we can assign numerical values to the expectations for a player controlled by age.

  12. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    The NBA should do a tracking study of the relative success of players drafted at each age 18, 19, 20 ,21, 22. Then compare the productivity of each age group over the four years of the rookie contract. That would be interesting. Also how many make it to the second contract. Then we can assign numerical values to the expectations for a player controlled by age.
    You're assuming that older players picked in the lottery offer a better return on investment right away because they're "more NBA ready," but that's often not the case. The correlation is pretty simple: the higher you're picked, the more likely you are to succeed and provide return on investment - whether immediately or in the future.

    And the players who often get picked highest in the draft are underclassmen because there's no reason for a freshman or sophomore to stay in school when they're one of the best college players in the country.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Well...I do know all the all stars from any of those drafts were younger...

    In my opinion, the facts are you didnít have one single all star nod from any player 22 or over in the lottery, from 2010 to 2016. 0% odds...

    Iíll stop now, as youíre already spinning it.
    What about Damian Lilarrd ? Whose spinning anything. I am asking critical questions. Also being an all-star is not the sole measure. How many of the younger of the younger players are out of the league as well ? The type of questions involve comparing various factors. Now what I find interesting is the NBA doesn't seem to quantify this in too much detail.

  14. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    You're assuming that older players picked in the lottery offer a better return on investment right away because they're "more NBA ready," but that's often not the case. The correlation is pretty simple: the higher you're picked, the more likely you are to succeed and provide return on investment - whether immediately or in the future.

    And the players who often get picked highest in the draft are underclassmen because there's no reason for a freshman or sophomore to stay in school when they're one of the best college players in the country.
    That was not my assertion at all.

  15. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    What about Damian Lilarrd ? Whose spinning anything. I am asking critical questions. Also being an all-star is not the sole measure. How many of the younger of the younger players are out of the league as well ? The type of questions involve comparing various factors. Now what I find interesting is the NBA doesn't seem to quantify this in too much detail.
    Fair..

    Missed one. Skimming through on my phone at work. Iíd say itís a pretty fair conclusion youíre very unlikely to draft a star

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