Knicks Select PF Obi Toppin with the 8th Pick

[nycericanguy]

You could try it. Frank would have to stop picking up his dribble at half court. Other then not having anyone to direct that lineup is balanced


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honestly a lineup of

Mitch
Deni
RJ
Frank
Terry

would have been much more versatile and intriguing. 4 playmakers and quickness all around. still can't sell myself on what we did.

if you had said 2 weeks ago we could have come away with Deni & Terry that would have been a huge win.

[nycericanguy]

You could try it. Frank would have to stop picking up his dribble at half court. Other then not having anyone to direct that lineup is balanced


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Payton is the alternative and he's just never going to learn to shoot or pass to RJ.

or Maybe DSJR without any expectations surprises us.

[ewing]

Payton is the alternative and he's just never going to learn to shoot or pass to RJ.

or Maybe DSJR without any expectations surprises us.

The doesn’t pass to JR narrative to is in your head. If JR runs the floor, is in the right spots, and take advantage of spot up opportunities he probably gets more shots up with Payton (it worked for Morris). If JR can really only play offense when everyone stops what they are doing to get him the ball that’s a problem and something he should be working to fix. Don’t get me wrong we should call his number sometimes but he isn’t James Harden. Everyone shouldn’t just be watching JR play make every time down.

When Frank plays PG, he often slows down then stops after he crosses 1/2 court. He then picks up his dribble and looks for someone that can actually do something with the ball. That’s probably going to be JR or Randle. They are also going to be working against a set defense and have to create something from nothing. It’s not a plus just bc JR definitely gets those touches


I’m hopeful that Burks and Rivers can take on some ball handling responsibility but I don’t want to see Frank in that role.




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[Knicks Boogie]

For all the Obi haters here is a very fair evaluation of Obi which talks about his strengths and weaknesses.

https://youtu.be/yxpzVO39yCc

[HeartOfStarks]

The doesn’t pass to JR narrative to is in your head. If JR runs the floor, is in the right spots, and take advantage of spot up opportunities he probably gets more shots up with Payton (it worked for Morris). If JR can really only play offense when everyone stops what they are doing to get him the ball that’s a problem and something he should be working to fix. Don’t get me wrong we should call his number sometimes but he isn’t James Harden. Everyone shouldn’t just be watching JR play make every time down.

When Frank plays PG, he often slows down then stops after he crosses 1/2 court. He then picks up his dribble and looks for someone that can actually do something with the ball. That’s probably going to be JR or Randle. They are also going to be working against a set defense and have to create something from nothing. It’s not a plus just bc JR definitely gets those touches


I’m hopeful that Burks and Rivers can take on some ball handling responsibility but I don’t want to see Frank in that role.




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From Fansided: “As a passer, Payton’s skill makes his tunnel vision when it comes to Julius Randle even more frustrating. Payton directed a majority of his passes to Randle while ignoring RJ Barrett. He made 29.2 percent of his passes to Randle last season while just 13 percent went to Barrett.”

Definitely not just in our heads. It’s real. Then there’s this:

“Of the 304 players who attempted 65 3-pointers last season, Payton ranked 303rd in 3-point percentage (20.3 percent). His effective field goal percentage of 45.6 percent was in the 8th percentile for point guards, per Cleaning the Glass.

He was last in the NBA in points per shot attempt (min. 1000 minutes), also per Cleaning the Glass. It was by a long shot too. CTG defines the stat as total points per 100 shots attempts — including field goal attempts and trips to the line (Payton shot 57 percent from the stripe).

Payton was one of the 104 players who averaged 50 touches per game last season. Of those 104, Payton ranked 103nd in points per touch — per Second Spectrum.”

He’s trash. And I swear you remove Randle and give Frank a coach who will scream in his face for handing the ball off at half court (Thibs) and that issue starts to go away. You hate Frank and that’s fine but not everyone sees it your way.

[ShadyOne]

From Fansided: “As a passer, Payton’s skill makes his tunnel vision when it comes to Julius Randle even more frustrating. Payton directed a majority of his passes to Randle while ignoring RJ Barrett. He made 29.2 percent of his passes to Randle last season while just 13 percent went to Barrett.”

Definitely not just in our heads. It’s real. Then there’s this:

“Of the 304 players who attempted 65 3-pointers last season, Payton ranked 303rd in 3-point percentage (20.3 percent). His effective field goal percentage of 45.6 percent was in the 8th percentile for point guards, per Cleaning the Glass.

He was last in the NBA in points per shot attempt (min. 1000 minutes), also per Cleaning the Glass. It was by a long shot too. CTG defines the stat as total points per 100 shots attempts — including field goal attempts and trips to the line (Payton shot 57 percent from the stripe).

Payton was one of the 104 players who averaged 50 touches per game last season. Of those 104, Payton ranked 103nd in points per touch — per Second Spectrum.”

He’s trash. And I swear you remove Randle and give Frank a coach who will scream in his face for handing the ball off at half court (Thibs) and that issue starts to go away. You hate Frank and that’s fine but not everyone sees it your way.

To be fair, I wouldn’t be surprised if half those Fansided articles are written by posters here

[HeartOfStarks]

To be fair, I wouldn’t be surprised if half those Fansided articles are written by posters here

Ha well, the stats are the stats. I heard this same thing on a Knicks pod this week. The bulk of Payton’s passes go to Randle. If you wanna watch us lose while those two play frisbee all game go right ahead, I’m just hoping Randle is gone and Payton is buried on the bench. Would be a Christmas miracle.

[ewing]

From Fansided: “As a passer, Payton’s skill makes his tunnel vision when it comes to Julius Randle even more frustrating. Payton directed a majority of his passes to Randle while ignoring RJ Barrett. He made 29.2 percent of his passes to Randle last season while just 13 percent went to Barrett.”

Definitely not just in our heads. It’s real. Then there’s this:

“Of the 304 players who attempted 65 3-pointers last season, Payton ranked 303rd in 3-point percentage (20.3 percent). His effective field goal percentage of 45.6 percent was in the 8th percentile for point guards, per Cleaning the Glass.

He was last in the NBA in points per shot attempt (min. 1000 minutes), also per Cleaning the Glass. It was by a long shot too. CTG defines the stat as total points per 100 shots attempts — including field goal attempts and trips to the line (Payton shot 57 percent from the stripe).

Payton was one of the 104 players who averaged 50 touches per game last season. Of those 104, Payton ranked 103nd in points per touch — per Second Spectrum.”

He’s trash. And I swear you remove Randle and give Frank a coach who will scream in his face for handing the ball off at half court (Thibs) and that issue starts to go away. You hate Frank and that’s fine but not everyone sees it your way.

I don’t think Payton can shoot. He’s a terrible shooter. The ball often doesn’t get above the rim. As for Payton passing to Randle he should.

Randle was usually the best scorer on the floor, the role man, and the guy with the best finishing ability. If he’s on the floor with the guys we had he is often going to be involved in initial 1/2 court action. Do you think JR was getting to good spots and ready to catch and shoot or make a play on a back cut if defenders were cheating to Randle on the roll? I don’t.

they should call JR number a little more but but otherwise he is going to have to learn to get catches after initial action and on the break. He not good enough at beating people off the bounce in isolation or screen roll and he’s not finisher on the roll.


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[HeartOfStarks]

I don’t think Payton can shoot. He’s a terrible shooter. The ball often doesn’t get above the rim. As for Payton passing to Randle he should.

Randle was usually the best scorer on the floor, the role man, and the guy with the best finishing ability. If he’s on the floor with the guys we had he is often going to be involved in initial 1/2 court action. Do you think JR was getting to good spots and ready to catch and shoot or make a play on a back cut if defenders were cheating to Randle on the roll? I don’t.

they should call JR number a little more but but otherwise he is going to have to learn to get catches after initial action and on the break. He not good enough at beating people off the bounce in isolation or screen roll and he’s not finisher on the roll.


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Nah man big man two man game is just outdated, slow, ugly basketball that doesn’t work. There’s a reason some of our best lineups were actually the Bullock-Portis (and Dot) groups (with Frank & Mitch mind you), and it’s not just because Bobby Portis is the greatest player to ever grace the hardwood 😎

[ewing]

Nah man big man two man game is just outdated, slow, ugly basketball that doesn’t work. There’s a reason some of our best lineups were actually the Bullock-Portis (and Dot) groups (with Frank & Mitch mind you), and it’s not just because Bobby Portis is the greatest player to ever grace the hardwood [emoji41]

Slow and ugly is Frank at point guard. I don’t like Randle and I think they could have been better at times with Portis especially playing with Mitch (more spacing/still have a roll man) Frank doesn’t bring pace though. He does the opposite.


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[HeartOfStarks]

Slow and ugly is Frank at point guard. I don’t like Randle and I think they could have been better at times with Portis especially playing with Mitch (more spacing/still have a roll man) Frank doesn’t bring pace though. He does the opposite.


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Disagree. It’s the pieces you put next to him. It’s not surprising he looked different in the Frank-Dot-Bullock-Portis-Mitch lineups. Randle is a spinning armadillo black hole who plays losing basketball.

[ewing]

Disagree. It’s the pieces you put next to him. It’s not surprising he looked different in the Frank-Dot-Bullock-Portis-Mitch lineups. Randle is a spinning armadillo black hole who plays losing basketball.

always someone else’s fault

That lineup almost never played. They too would probably play faster with Payton if they did. He pushes the ball more, doesn’t stop and pick up his dribble, and makes advance passes more


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[HeartOfStarks]

honestly a lineup of

Mitch
Deni
RJ
Frank
Terry

would have been much more versatile and intriguing. 4 playmakers and quickness all around. still can't sell myself on what we did.

if you had said 2 weeks ago we could have come away with Deni & Terry that would have been a huge win.

Oof that’s painful to look at.

[HeartOfStarks]

always someone else’s fault

That lineup almost never played. They too would probably play faster with Payton if they did. He pushes the ball more, doesn’t stop and pick up his dribble, and makes advance passes more


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I guess. Randle & Payton just play a losing style of basketball, is what it is. Follow them for the next 5-10 years I’m pretty sure they’ll lose wherever they go as long as they’re getting big minutes. They’re pointless players to give minutes to.

You can go to the 82games site or any other analytic site and see what I’m saying has merit though. The lineups with Frank plus three point threats performed better, but whatever I don’t feel like arguing this anymore.

Let’s just agree to agree that Bobby Portis will surpass LeBron & Jordan as GOAT in 3 seasons or less.

[ewing]

Oof that’s painful to look at.

This is like when everyone on this board wanted Mudiay in the draft. None of us have seen enough of Deni to have an opinion. Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. I have no idea


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