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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I understand all of that. But when a guy stops around a pick 38 feet from the rim and flails, and gets 3 shots, it's ridiculous, and beotch ball. That is impossible for me to support, regardless of how good he actually is. If he stopped flopping like a fish, he would still dominate. But he won't, and I will continue to hate his game because of it. James Harden is annoying for me to watch, and I am not alone in my sentiments.
    There is contact pretty much every time Harden gets to the line. Like I said, its on the defender to be disciplined. On his 3s, dudes run under him almost every time. You don't bite, there is no free throws. Don't close out a 3 like a freight train and there won't be a foul to call. Bad defense on him shouldn't be rewarded

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    He and D12 clashed.
    He and CP3 clashed.
    He and RW played together 1 season and are already packing their bags.

    That's 0-3 with hall of fame teammates.
    Dwight was washed and literally hasnt done a thing since leaving Harden. Dwight was also disliked by the whole team, wasnt a Harden specific thing.

    Like I said, legit beef with him and CP3.

    I dont think he and Russ have any kind of feud, I think they legit just dont want to play for Tilman, which is totally understandable.
    Last edited by rhino17; 11-18-2020 at 06:52 PM.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    There is contact pretty much every time Harden gets to the line. Like I said, its on the defender to be disciplined. On his 3s, dudes run under him almost every time. You don't bite, there is no free throws. Don't close out a 3 like a freight train and there won't be a foul to call. Bad defense on him shouldn't be rewarded



    Dwight was washed and literally hasnt done a thing since leaving Harden. Dwight was also disliked by the whole team, wasnt a Harden specific thing.

    Like I said, legit beef with him and CP3.

    I dont think he and Russ have any kind of feud, I think they legit just dont want to play for Tilman, which is totally understandable.
    Look I would never be arrogant enough to claim like I know the inner workings of your franchise. All I know is I read articles like he and dwight wanted to get each other traded. That ain't good for business. The CP3 thing is clearly legit. That is the most damning evidence. He and RW are packing their bags after 1 year. You want to blame Tillman that's fine but if all was good with the players that should be enough imo. Like the Bulls hated the **** out of their GM but they didn't give a fudge because they wanted to keep the dynasty together.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  3. #153
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    I mean athe 90s bulls. Obviously I'm not refering to teh Lavine/Wendell Carter Jr. dynasty.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    That sums it up for me. It's a shame. do you think he needed a more team oriented franchise or just a better group of shooters and defenders around him?
    I think he needed Chris Paul's hamstring to not give out in Game 5 against the Warriors. And he needed to not peak in the same era and the same conference as the most dominant team since the 90s Bulls.

    Moreyball worked. D'Antoni's system worked. Harden's offensive system worked. They just weren't as good as Golden State, and the Warriors beat them in the playoffs. So that's my overall answer to this question.

    Do I think better shooters and defenders would have helped? Absolutely. But what team can't we say that for? And it's hard to know whether a more team oriented offense with ball movement would have been more effective, because they didn't really try that. I will say, though, that Harden had the ball in his hands a lot less before D'Antoni came along and they doubled down on Harden's iso ball, and those teams pre D'Antoni were not remotely as good as the teams after Harden took over all the playmaking duties.


  5. #155
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    Could the trade of Horford to acquire Green and Ferguson be part of something bigger to get Harden? In Morey I trust.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    There is contact pretty much every time Harden gets to the line. Like I said, its on the defender to be disciplined. On his 3s, dudes run under him almost every time. You don't bite, there is no free throws. Don't close out a 3 like a freight train and there won't be a foul to call. Bad defense on him shouldn't be rewarded

    .
    we see different things obviously. If you can't admit that Harden literally flails his way into some FT attempts than I am not sure what to tell ya....

    The dude plays like a beotch. Flipping and flopping all over the place for a whistle. Is he amazing at basketball? Yep. Do those theatrics make it impossible for me, and many others, to stomach watching him? Yep.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    we see different things obviously. If you can't admit that Harden literally flails his way into some FT attempts than I am not sure what to tell ya....

    The dude plays like a beotch. Flipping and flopping all over the place for a whistle. Is he amazing at basketball? Yep. Do those theatrics make it impossible for me, and many others, to stomach watching him? Yep.
    BREAKING NEWS: NBA superstars flop to get points

    Yeah, that's not really shocking. Maybe Harden does it more than the average star player, but Harden also has the ball in his hands way more often than the average star player. Also, he's not "flailing" and "flopping" nearly as much as you're claiming. He is, however, gaming the rules a bit.

    The most common foul he probably draws is the arm hook where he sees a defender's arm, drives into it and hooks his own arm around it to force the call. There's usually a light flop, but by the definition of a foul, it's the defender's fault more often than not for stretching his arm out to stop the drive. If the league called that play differently, Harden wouldn't do it. Blame the league, not the player.

    Also, as you stated yourself, he gets the vast majority of his points without flopping. You could take away four of Harden's 11.8 FTA per game last season so he's on the same level as the No. 2 and No. 3 scorers (Beal and Lillard), and he'd still lead the league in scoring.


  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    BREAKING NEWS: NBA superstars flop to get points

    Yeah, that's not really shocking. Maybe Harden does it more than the average star player, but Harden also has the ball in his hands way more often than the average star player. Also, he's not "flailing" and "flopping" nearly as much as you're claiming. He is, however, gaming the rules a bit.

    The most common foul he probably draws is the arm hook where he sees a defender's arm, drives into it and hooks his own arm around it to force the call. There's usually a light flop, but by the definition of a foul, it's the defender's fault more often than not for stretching his arm out to stop the drive. If the league called that play differently, Harden wouldn't do it. Blame the league, not the player.

    Also, as you stated yourself, he gets the vast majority of his points without flopping. You could take away four of Harden's 11.8 FTA per game last season so he's on the same level as the No. 2 and No. 3 scorers (Beal and Lillard), and he'd still lead the league in scoring.
    I can hate a player for any reason I want though. Don't you guys get that? I despise his non-basketball related antics, and furthermore, I despise that the league lets him get away with it. LeBron fkin James even started flopping when he saw guys like Harden reaping the benefits from giving an academy award performance 5 times a game.

    I hate Harden's game, the herky jerky, trying to sell a foul constantly, hands flying into the air, mouth open like he just got neck chopped, etc. Imagine Harden doing that at Rucker Park. Or hell anywhere outside the protective of guards NBA. He is absolutely one of the guys I think would be hurt by going back 20 years.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I can hate a player for any reason I want though. Don't you guys get that? I despise his non-basketball related antics, and furthermore, I despise that the league lets him get away with it. LeBron fkin James even started flopping when he saw guys like Harden reaping the benefits from giving an academy award performance 5 times a game.

    I hate Harden's game, the herky jerky, trying to sell a foul constantly, hands flying into the air, mouth open like he just got neck chopped, etc. Imagine Harden doing that at Rucker Park. Or hell anywhere outside the protective of guards NBA. He is absolutely one of the guys I think would be hurt by going back 20 years.
    If Iím not mistaken, I think Iíve seen you praise Manu before. Apologies if you railed against him as much as youíre doing toward Harden.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    If Iím not mistaken, I think Iíve seen you praise Manu before. Apologies if you railed against him as much as youíre doing toward Harden.
    While similar players, not even Manu's theatrics, and non-basketball related foul draws stacked up to Harden. And where do you even think Harden learned those snake like drives from?

    On top of that, Manu didn't choke come playoffs. Harden is so talented, and yet such a fake superstar to me.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    While similar players, not even Manu's theatrics, and non-basketball related foul draws stacked up to Harden. And where do you even think Harden learned those snake like drives from?
    Oh, so if Manuís usage was higher youíd be saying the same thing about him. But since he was on a more balanced team, he gets a pass. I guess. Gotcha.

    On top of that, Manu didn't choke come playoffs. Harden is so talented, and yet such a fake superstar to me.
    Oh, Manu was the top dog on his team to carry them? Didnít realize that. Guess Duncan is overrated then.


    You donít like him because your buddies controlled what you watched for years and you just dealt with it and seethed. If they were Spurs fans youíd be ripping on Manu every chance you got.

  12. #162
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    Its a domino effect. I believe the Rockets want to move RW then Harden not vice versa.

  13. #163
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    Why hasn't this dude reported for camp yet?

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    If Iím not mistaken, I think Iíve seen you praise Manu before. Apologies if you railed against him as much as youíre doing toward Harden.
    Manu was a lot more loveable though! (In fairness, Manu didn't do it to the level Harden did either.)
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Why hasn't this dude reported for camp yet?
    I'm starting to get a bad feeling, though. At first I just shrugged it off, because it looked like he was partying with friends in Vegas and broke COVID-19 protocol. I can live with him breaking protocol almost a month before the season started, but now they don't even know if he's in Houston, and his mother posted a statement on Instagram earlier that certainly makes it seem like he's holding out.

    I get that the dude is mad. It's been a tumultuous couple of months for the Rockets, and his coach and GM (who he was very fond of) are gone. But I think he's making a mistake if he is sitting out. The Rockets are not likely to trade him before the season, and they're probably even less likely to trade him if he's sitting out and hurting his own value.

    I'm going to wait on judgment, though, until we really know what the situation is. Since he doesn't have an agent and has never been a super vocal social media guy, it's impossible to know what's really going on now. I'm holding out hope he shows up in the next couple of days.


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