Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 123 of 168 FirstFirst ... 2373113121122123124125133 ... LastLast
Results 1,831 to 1,845 of 2513

Thread: Jets talk

  1. #1831
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,145

    Singling Out Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Does your hate dwindle your common sense.

    Why single out Wilson?
    Because he's the starting QB of this forum's team.
    DUH!
    You brought up a good point.

    Wilson is the one prospect that has the best shot at becoming Mahomes-esque.
    He has the skills.
    He has shown he can move in the pocket, he can run and he has a rifle arm.
    He's obviously got a ways to go, but he has the goods - good that you pointed this out and reminded us.

  2. #1832
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
    Posts
    42,843
    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    You can't actually make a team return a kickoff.

    If you squib kick, you run the risk of having a player down the ball ahead of the 25ys line AND even worse, you run the risk of the ball going out of bounds.

    Remember, if you squib kick and a hands team member falls on the ball, giving himself up, no time runs from the clock.

    I had no problem with the kickoff, however they should have sat in a soft cover 3 and flooded the field with DBs.
    That was bad defensive playcalling with :13 secs left
    -------‐--------------------------------------------
    Now for those of you that have claimed Zach Wilson is no doubt the answer at QB for the Jets, I ask you this:
    Brady, Mahomes, even Josh Allen and Joe Burrow proved this weekend what the 'it' factor is all about.

    My question is: To win in the AFC (which is loaded with young gun QBs), you have to have 'it'.
    What have you seen from Zach Wilson this year to believe he has 'it' going forward?

    It's true you can't make a team return it but you can try. If they want to fair catch a squib or high short kick. I still think you have to make them field it and make that choice.

    The defensive calls were absurd. I was dumbfounded while watching and after the game. For Fs sake, Rush 2 and have one spy on Mahomes. Drop the rest and add man coverage to Hill and Kelsey.
    Rush 3 and umbrella...


    I don't know if Zac has "it". I will say this, I think he has a better chance of having "it" than I felt with Sanchez, Geno, Darnold.
    I saw more progression out of him than any of those 3 in their first season. Am I thrilled with his progression? No. But I saw it. The last few games, things seemed to slow down.

    Bottom line is what a bunch of us have been saying. He has the skill set. Does he have the mindset? Can he catch up to the speed of the game regarding his own skills? Can he adjust and learn how much smaller windows are for his passes and his scrambles? Can he learn to take what is there and not force?
    I saw some signs and flashes but we won't know till year 3. We should see significant growth next year. If we don't? I still give him the third year but I won't be as optimistic.

    The other factor is that yes, those 3 teams QBs are lights out but Aaron Rodgers stunk it up and then there is Jimmy G. 9ers are right in the mix. I sound like a broken record but you don't need a star QB to win it. You need a solid QB. If Zac can be a top 15 guy? I think the team can be very successful. Will it be easier if he's a top7? Hell yes.

    I am actually more optimistic about Zac than I was after the draft. Not much, but those last few games showed me something.



    Ignorance is bliss

  3. #1833
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,145

    Why are we sitting here defending Wilson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    It's true you can't make a team return it but you can try. If they want to fair catch a squib or high short kick. I still think you have to make them field it and make that choice.

    The defensive calls were absurd. I was dumbfounded while watching and after the game. For Fs sake, Rush 2 and have one spy on Mahomes. Drop the rest and add man coverage to Hill and Kelsey.
    Rush 3 and umbrella...


    I don't know if Zac has "it". I will say this, I think he has a better chance of having "it" than I felt with Sanchez, Geno, Darnold.
    I saw more progression out of him than any of those 3 in their first season. Am I thrilled with his progression? No. But I saw it. The last few games, things seemed to slow down.

    Bottom line is what a bunch of us have been saying. He has the skill set. Does he have the mindset? Can he catch up to the speed of the game regarding his own skills? Can he adjust and learn how much smaller windows are for his passes and his scrambles? Can he learn to take what is there and not force?
    I saw some signs and flashes but we won't know till year 3. We should see significant growth next year. If we don't? I still give him the third year but I won't be as optimistic.

    The other factor is that yes, those 3 teams QBs are lights out but Aaron Rodgers stunk it up and then there is Jimmy G. 9ers are right in the mix. I sound like a broken record but you don't need a star QB to win it. You need a solid QB. If Zac can be a top 15 guy? I think the team can be very successful. Will it be easier if he's a top7? Hell yes.

    I am actually more optimistic about Zac than I was after the draft. Not much, but those last few games showed me something.
    Agree 100% with what you said.
    Maybe Wilson makes 'it', maybe he doesn't
    At least he's got the raw materials to have a chance
    It's just unclear to me why we're forced to play defense every week on what is clearly a work in progress who no one knows at this point whether he'll develop the other requisite skills or not to become a stud.

    I'm not looking at the other forums, but is anybody else saying their guy sucks because he's not Mahomes or Allen?

  4. #1834
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,641
    If the Giants had taken Darnold instead of Barkley and the Jets had been forced to take Allen, would he have developed anything like the player he is today? Under Gase? I doubt it and a lot of talent would have been wasted.

    Buffalo was patient with Allen his first year and I doubt anyone in Buffalo was continually assessing him from the day he was drafted as to whether he was a draft bust. Let's give Wilson the benefit of the doubt and see whether he is able to develop into something special like Allen did. Time will tell and as fans of the J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS, we should all be cautiously optimistic.

  5. #1835
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
    Posts
    42,843
    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    Agree 100% with what you said.
    Maybe Wilson makes 'it', maybe he doesn't
    At least he's got the raw materials to have a chance
    It's just unclear to me why we're forced to play defense every week on what is clearly a work in progress who no one knows at this point whether he'll develop the other requisite skills or not to become a stud.

    I'm not looking at the other forums, but is anybody else saying their guy sucks because he's not Mahomes or Allen?
    Truly, I don't see anyone saying Wilson sucks. I have seen jokes about it in the over/under thread and the occasional reactionary comment but I think everyone here has agreed that he has talent and more talent than recent draft picks at QB. More than a few of us from the start commented on the key being his ability to handle the speed of the game and adapt. He played lesser competition.
    In college he shredded lesser competition and got his arse kicked by good teams. That's fact. That was my apprehension. His arm talent and athleticism were never in question.

    So I pose the same question to you about the coaches, how come Wilson gets a wait and see but they don't?

    I don't see anyone in other threads or in the media, saying the Jets coaches stink.
    If you feel lWilson improved, they did something right.



    Ignorance is bliss

  6. #1836
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
    Posts
    42,843
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    If the Giants had taken Darnold instead of Barkley and the Jets had been forced to take Allen, would he have developed anything like the player he is today? Under Gase? I doubt it and a lot of talent would have been wasted.

    Buffalo was patient with Allen his first year and I doubt anyone in Buffalo was continually assessing him from the day he was drafted as to whether he was a draft bust. Let's give Wilson the benefit of the doubt and see whether he is able to develop into something special like Allen did. Time will tell and as fans of the J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS, we should all be cautiously optimistic.
    Agreed. I would have still rather had Allen . I wanted Mayfield-Allen-Darnold, in that order.

    This is the crappy thing about many fans. They say they are willing to be patient. But halfway through a season, they lose their minds. This is a 3 year process. I'm not saying the Jets will replicate but look at what the Bills did in 3 years, in 2.

    I am completely shocked by Bills/Pats fans I know who are all worried about the Jets next year. If Joe has a good offseason and Zac takes even a good half step forward, this team will be good. Not ok but good.



    Ignorance is bliss

  7. #1837
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In your Mind
    Posts
    11,653
    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    You brought up a good point.

    Wilson is the one prospect that has the best shot at becoming Mahomes-esque.
    He has the skills.
    He has shown he can move in the pocket, he can run and he has a rifle arm.
    He's obviously got a ways to go, but he has the goods - good that you pointed this out and reminded us.
    That's the thing, I don't see Mahomes when I look at Zach.
    I see more of a Russell Wilson type of QB, where he's going to have to win by rolling out and often throwing on the move

    Yes, Mahomes can do that too (and then some) but Mahomes is actually a pocket passer first and foremost.

    Zach's decision-making and accuracy was where he lacked big time last year, and although he can improve his decision making, I do worry about his accuracy.
    Ok, he's a rookie and maybe he had happy feet and the fundamentals of proper throwing footwork escaped him.
    I can accept that.
    But I watched him spike a 7yd pass to the flat.

    You might consider it hate, but his accuracy/lack of accuracy gives me great concern, and is the reason I question if he could ever have the 'it' factor.

  8. #1838
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In your Mind
    Posts
    11,653
    Why are people more vocal of Wilson than other QBs?

    That's simple.
    Welcome to NEW YORK.

    No one is calling for his head, but we are calling on improvement.

    For instance, Zach Wilson was a bottom 5 QB in all 5 major QB categories.

    Y'all won't like this, but if his accuracy and decision making doesn't greatly improve,
    his ceiling will be Jay Cutler.
    A wildly erratic QB that may hold it together for a full season here.and there, but without positive consistency, he was fool's gold.

    Good news is he grew his game being on the sidelines, so hopefully he'll put that work in this offseason and continue to develop into the FQB we believe he can be.

  9. #1839
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,262
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    If the Giants had taken Darnold instead of Barkley and the Jets had been forced to take Allen, would he have developed anything like the player he is today? Under Gase? I doubt it and a lot of talent would have been wasted.

    Buffalo was patient with Allen his first year and I doubt anyone in Buffalo was continually assessing him from the day he was drafted as to whether he was a draft bust. Let's give Wilson the benefit of the doubt and see whether he is able to develop into something special like Allen did. Time will tell and as fans of the J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS, we should all be cautiously optimistic.
    My understanding is that the Jets 3 QB's that draft were Mayfield, Darnold and, believe it or not, Rosen.

  10. #1840
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
    Posts
    16,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Agreed. I would have still rather had Allen . I wanted Mayfield-Allen-Darnold, in that order.

    This is the crappy thing about many fans. They say they are willing to be patient. But halfway through a season, they lose their minds. This is a 3 year process. I'm not saying the Jets will replicate but look at what the Bills did in 3 years, in 2.

    I am completely shocked by Bills/Pats fans I know who are all worried about the Jets next year. If Joe has a good offseason and Zac takes even a good half step forward, this team will be good. Not ok but good.
    But see, I don't think the offseason is as much about Zach Wilson as it is about getting a defense that doesn't allow nearly 30 PPG. Even some of your playoff teams are not going to be able to overcome that on a week to week basis. Allowing 504 points in 17 games is horrendous on so many levels. I know people talk about offense with the top picks in the draft; I feel like at least 3 of the 4 need to be on defensive players.
    Eichel Tower

  11. #1841
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In your Mind
    Posts
    11,653
    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    But see, I don't think the offseason is as much about Zach Wilson as it is about getting a defense that doesn't allow nearly 30 PPG. Even some of your playoff teams are not going to be able to overcome that on a week to week basis. Allowing 504 points in 17 games is horrendous on so many levels. I know people talk about offense with the top picks in the draft; I feel like at least 3 of the 4 need to be on defensive players.
    Agreed.

    The key focus early in the draft needs to be on the defense.
    However, I don't think the defense is really as bad as it seemed, because the Jets didn't have their starting safeties past week 1.
    Then they shuffled their LBs until they found Quincy Williams.

    I'd expect the defense to be naturally improved next year, just based on the young guys having field experience in the system and a few new players added via FA and the draft.
    Last edited by MrX27; 01-26-2022 at 06:17 PM.

  12. #1842
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,641
    I'd go DE, S, CB, OL, WR with the first 5 picks, but not necessarily in that order. It depends on who we signed in FA and who's available when we pick. TE is also another possibility.

  13. #1843
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,145

    Defense

    The Jets had a historically bad defense last year.

    They were blown out in nearly half their games.

    They gave up a record number of points.

    Their defense was ranked last in the league and their run defense was beyond last in the league.

    They need safeties and linebackers but they also need defensive linemen.

    Its disturbing that the one strength of the 2020 team, interior line against the run, was a major weakness in 2021 - with the same guys!
    Quinnen Williams was an up an coming star in 2020, now they are not extending him in 2021.
    Foli Fatukasi who was highly rated in 2020 apparently isn't going to be re-signed in for 2022.
    No bueno. You can't say its a scheme thing. You can't defend the scheme of a historically bad defense and say we want to sacrafice two big talents for the scheme - which obviously don't work too good. Douglas needs to tell his coaches, "I can't be hemorrhaging talent to protect your crappy scheme. Change your scheme to provide an environment where these top talents can succeed. It is unacceptable to get rid of what little talent we have to protect your garbage defensive scheme."

    As it is now, we need to be spending draft capital on defensive linemen on top of linebackers and safeties. Where does it end with this bozo crew of coaches. They need to get their act together and Douglas needs to lay down the law to them to do it. Kicking Williams and Fatukasi to the curb is about as good a long term strategy is following these moron's defensive schemes

  14. #1844
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,947
    First and foremost my QB evaluation skills are horrible. My Darnold draft preference was Darnold (though I did have concerns on arm strength), Rosen (concerns of him be a giant P), Mayfield (too small), and I wanted no part of Allen (inaccurate and just threw the ball as far as he could)

    I thought Rosen was the best passer and if he could get the sand out of his V and grow a pair, heíd be a 4,000 yard a year QB like clockwork.

    So with that said, I didnít like ZW out of college. The lesser competition worried me, but only a little. The flops vs the good teams worried me, Iíd say 2.5 out of 5. I very much liked his arm strength, accuracy, anticipation and those are some serious attributes. What concerned me the most was he looked like a toy, he has some serious legs, but his upper body and overall frame is petite, I donít think he can hold up long term unless he turns into Drew Brees.

    Fast forward into his first NFL season, he gets a bit of a pass because we all knew he sucked vs better talent. All new system, all new players, all new coaches also gives him a pass.

    However two of the attributes which gave him so much praise, he absolutely sucked at. His anticipation was awful, but I can give a bit of a pass there. His accuracy however I have a really hard time looking past. Simple throws werenít even close, and it didnít matter if the receiver was open or not or if there was pressure on him. Thatís a major red flag for me. However I hope that was more to do with jitters

  15. #1845
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,145

    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    First and foremost my QB evaluation skills are horrible. My Darnold draft preference was Darnold (though I did have concerns on arm strength), Rosen (concerns of him be a giant P), Mayfield (too small), and I wanted no part of Allen (inaccurate and just threw the ball as far as he could)

    I thought Rosen was the best passer and if he could get the sand out of his V and grow a pair, heíd be a 4,000 yard a year QB like clockwork.

    So with that said, I didnít like ZW out of college. The lesser competition worried me, but only a little. The flops vs the good teams worried me, Iíd say 2.5 out of 5. I very much liked his arm strength, accuracy, anticipation and those are some serious attributes. What concerned me the most was he looked like a toy, he has some serious legs, but his upper body and overall frame is petite, I donít think he can hold up long term unless he turns into Drew Brees.

    Fast forward into his first NFL season, he gets a bit of a pass because we all knew he sucked vs better talent. All new system, all new players, all new coaches also gives him a pass.

    However two of the attributes which gave him so much praise, he absolutely sucked at. His anticipation was awful, but I can give a bit of a pass there. His accuracy however I have a really hard time looking past. Simple throws werenít even close, and it didnít matter if the receiver was open or not or if there was pressure on him. Thatís a major red flag for me. However I hope that was more to do with jitters
    Agree with everything you say.

    If I may be allowed to rephrase what you're saying, its "Zach Wilson is a project with a potential high ceiling but it will take him a while to reach that ceiling if he ever does"

    If we all agree on that statement, I do, then making some sort of a final judgement at this point is pointless. If you want to evaluate how well or poorly he is progressing towards that ceiling, fine.

    The problem here is that we are droning on endlessly week after week that he's a bust. He may end up being one, but we're nowhere near making that judgement.

    As far as my opinion of his progress:

    . He hasn't progressed very far. Would he have done much better in a much better organization like the ones that Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Jones and even Burrow and Herbert landed in - absolutely. Would Lawrence, Fields and Josh Rosen have done better in a functional organization? - absolutely.

    . Does he have the physical skills to be elite? That hasn't changed, yes he does.

    . Will he develop the mental skills to be elite? Like we said, he started out behind the eight ball in those and he's a project. And better coaching would certainly help in this aspect of his game.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •