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  1. #10951
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Do we still have a filibuster? Have we passed federal voting reforms to end things like gerrymandering?

    If Sinema is the true hold up Iíd get him not signaling it before heís need to ala Susan Collins, but I have a feeling heís the hold up versus her here.

    So why am I checking Manchinís voting record again? Heís also the one torpedoing a good portion of Bidenís agenda, so heís making the party bend to him as opposed to otherwise. I think he could have bent a good deal more than he did without risking his spot.


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    So whether we still have the filibuster is how you judge him? Not that he has voted with Biden 100%? No we haven't passed federal voting reforms. Joe Manchin represents a state that voted for Trump both times and has zero other statewide elected Democrats. You might consider that before judging him as harshly as you are. Do you know what gets passed if he gets replaced by a Republican? Well I would ask Mitch McConnell what he wants passed. I'm inclined to trust his instincts on what voters in his state want over any of us armchair senators from West Virginia.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  2. #10952
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    they had people/experts saying something and Biden still didn't listen.

    if Trump did that no way would the same media say it was a success.

    the point is Joe Biden should not get credit for Afghanistan, while he certainly deserves blame for what happened.

    HAHAHAHAHa, Trump didn't have the balls to get us out because he knuckle under to the military leaders and neocons pressure.

    But he is the good guy in this story. I wish you serve milk and cookies when you entertain us with these tales.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  3. #10953
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    So whether we still have the filibuster is how you judge him? Not that he has voted with Biden 100%? No we haven't passed federal voting reforms. Joe Manchin represents a state that voted for Trump both times and has zero other statewide elected Democrats. You might consider that before judging him as harshly as you are. Do you know what gets passed if he gets replaced by a Republican? Well I would ask Mitch McConnell what he wants passed. I'm inclined to trust his instincts on what voters in his state want over any of us armchair senators from West Virginia.
    Voting reforms would be transformational well beyond his one vote that he likely would still hold anyways. You think youíre being tactical, but the juice is well worth the squeeze here.

    You overestimate how easy it is to remove someone who has been in place that long.

    Lol I almost wrote in my response you were going to lean on trusting his instincts. You do that, doesnít make you or him right here.

    Also your comment about Mitch McConnell is nonsensical. Mitch has passed plenty with him as a senator. And if heís still around will likely get that opportunity again. And because they failed to act decisively to protect the institutional aspects of the government, heíll likely have the house as well.


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  4. #10954
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Voting reforms would be transformational well beyond his one vote that he likely would still hold anyways. You think youíre being tactical, but the juice is well worth the squeeze here.

    You overestimate how easy it is to remove someone who has been in place that long.

    Lol I almost wrote in my response you were going to lean on trusting his instincts. You do that, doesnít make you or him right here.

    Also your comment about Mitch McConnell is nonsensical. Mitch has passed plenty with him as a senator. And if heís still around will likely get that opportunity again. And because they failed to act decisively to protect the institutional aspects of the government, heíll likely have the house as well.


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    This part is your fatal flaw. Yes Mitch passed some legislation with him but he wasn't dependent on him. If he were the 50th senator that Mitch had to depend on, he would be equally as frustrated with Joe. It's the same thing with Susan Collins and others. They were never really the 50th vote for him. How much legislation got passed during Trump's early term? They passed the tax cut but what else? Remember Mitch's experience with the 50th senator in John McCain?
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  5. #10955
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    This part is your fatal flaw. Yes Mitch passed some legislation with him but he wasn't dependent on him. If he were the 50th senator that Mitch had to depend on, he would be equally as frustrated with Joe. It's the same thing with Susan Collins and others. They were never really the 50th vote for him. How much legislation got passed during Trump's early term? They passed the tax cut but what else? Remember Mitch's experience with the 50th senator in John McCain?
    Tax cuts which was huge, and umm a few lifetime appointments to this crazy powerful thing called the Supreme CourtÖ. The fact you didnít even remember it goes to show how much these people can get away with.

    Especially when Manchin isnít even close to being up for election. Everyone wanted to act like those votes would doom Collins, and there was a ton of money raisedÖ. And then she was overwhelmingly re-elected.

    McCain, I have no doubt would have been re elected if he did a thumbs up instead of a thumbs down that day.


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  6. #10956
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Or maybe it won't happen because it's a really stupid idea that has a 99% chance of failure.
    It wonít happen cause democrats rarely ever actually fight for the people. A partisan hack that canít have a conversation calls me stupid for not bowing down to all dems. Shocking


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  7. #10957
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    After reading your posts again I think I've gotten a pretty clear view of your politics. Correct me if I'm wrong

    1. You want the Dems to become the Progressive party (or collapse and make room for a progressive party).

    2. You think losing guys like Manchin and moving the party further left will gain more political support than it'll lose in the long term. So it's a win win for you. Either pressure Manchin into a vote or get rid of Manchin.

    3. You think progressives have policies that everyone wants. And if the Dems went full lefty a massive wave of support would follow.

    Am I close?
    I want dems to actually push for great policy, not constantly just accept settling for less.

    I think when two dems hold up good policy, we should call them out. That it happens to be the more conservative members now tells me most of the party is further left than them already.

    I think this has a lot of policy democratic voters want. They supported it pretty heavily in polls. I also think there is other progressive policy that could gain support but that would be for another time. Iíve been focused on manchin and the current opportunity we have.


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  8. #10958
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Tax cuts which was huge, and umm a few lifetime appointments to this crazy powerful thing called the Supreme CourtÖ. The fact you didnít even remember it goes to show how much these people can get away with.

    Especially when Manchin isnít even close to being up for election. Everyone wanted to act like those votes would doom Collins, and there was a ton of money raisedÖ. And then she was overwhelmingly re-elected.

    McCain, I have no doubt would have been re elected if he did a thumbs up instead of a thumbs down that day.


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    Now see you are splitting what I'm saying into things that I'm specifically not talking about. The situation you are describing a situation that doesn't apply to the current situation. Manchin was NEVER the 50th vote for an of those things. Nor was Susan Collins or any other senator.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  9. #10959
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Do we still have a filibuster? Have we passed federal voting reforms to end things like gerrymandering?

    If Sinema is the true hold up Iíd get him not signaling it before heís need to ala Susan Collins, but I have a feeling heís the hold up versus her here.

    So why am I checking Manchinís voting record again? Heís also the one torpedoing a good portion of Bidenís agenda, so heís making the party bend to him as opposed to otherwise. I think he could have bent a good deal more than he did without risking his spot.


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    Agreed. I think if he wanted to negotiate something to sell to his constituents in good faith he could have while keeping the main parts of the bill/what other dems want. We know who he is though and why this is dragging out with him. Itís not just about risking his spot with the voters imo either.


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  10. #10960
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    Someone explain to me how this man gets to vote on anything other than what they're serving for lunch at the home.


  11. #10961
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Now see you are splitting what I'm saying into things that I'm specifically not talking about. The situation you are describing a situation that doesn't apply to the current situation. Manchin was NEVER the 50th vote for an of those things. Nor was Susan Collins or any other senator.
    Of course Manchin wasnít the 50th vote on those things. And with Collins and others that gives them more cover to vote against the party.

    You were responding to what I was talking about so Iím not sure where youíre going now to be honest.

    The point Iím making is even if you say itís not worth the potential political capital itís could be worth for much of the reconciliation build back better bill. Heís has no excuse for not getting behind voting rights reform. Because itís worth it, just like it was for Collins and Murkowski and others to buck their facade theyíve crafted for the good of the party. And here Iíd argue for the good of the country.


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  12. #10962
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  13. #10963
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    I saw a woman quietly crying for joy that she got her link card, now I can eat I heard her say between "Thank You Jesus". You don't know how much a game changing those aid and future programs are to the working poor, fixed income people are struggling young families.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  14. #10964
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    Tell her if her aid end that is how the system work. A little here and little there and a promises of more later. That don't fill empty bellies or excite people to vote for you. At least the republicans are honest and just tell you they don't care instead of stringing people around.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  15. #10965
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    So who gets the credit for getting us out of Afghanistan if it isn't the president who order it? Trump, the trumpists, republicans anybody but Biden who ordered it?

    Please enlighten me so I can send a thank you card for ending our war there. That is the most important part, ending a conflict, but it seems it isn't for you.

    I wonder why Trump didn't get us out when he promises he would. I am sure he would done a better job. He is he chosen one.

    In the name of the Orange Man, the idiot son and wanton hussy, go in peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    HAHAHAHAHa, Trump didn't have the balls to get us out because he knuckle under to the military leaders and neocons pressure.

    But he is the good guy in this story. I wish you serve milk and cookies when you entertain us with these tales.


    Trump arranged it. credit Trump.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54968200
    Those in Afghanistan will be cut from about 5,000 down to 2,500 by mid-January, officials said. In Iraq they will be reduced from 3,000 to 2,500.

    President Trump has previously said he wants "all" troops home by Christmas.

    understandable that those on the other side (politicians included) don't want to give credit where it's due, orange man bad that apparently did nothing.


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