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  1. #7726
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,776
    I do not cherish the insurance companies. Obamacare was the best thing that ever happened to them. It created local monopolies for them and they are allowed to charge what they want for their product. I do not begrudge insurance companies their profits, in fact, they are required by law to make a profit, but to see rates increase as much as they did once Obamacare was passed was quite mindboggling.
    I would like to see national licenses for insurance carriers, rather than state licenses. That would allow a company, headquartered in New Jersey to sell products for the same rates in Alaska as they do in Florida. Right now, they have to comply with 52 sets of laws (DC and Puerto Rico included) and have to be licensed wherever they wish to sell their products.

  2. #7727
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I do not cherish the insurance companies. Obamacare was the best thing that ever happened to them. It created local monopolies for them and they are allowed to charge what they want for their product. I do not begrudge insurance companies their profits, in fact, they are required by law to make a profit, but to see rates increase as much as they did once Obamacare was passed was quite mindboggling.
    I would like to see national licenses for insurance carriers, rather than state licenses. That would allow a company, headquartered in New Jersey to sell products for the same rates in Alaska as they do in Florida. Right now, they have to comply with 52 sets of laws (DC and Puerto Rico included) and have to be licensed wherever they wish to sell their products.

    Can you show me examples of Obama Care creating a monopoly?

  3. #7728
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,776
    Have you looked at the state exchanges? United Healthcare is the only company consistently on the state exchanges. Others have dropped off due to the red tape and hoops they have to jump through. Other insurance carriers are still licensed in states, but are only sold through private agents.

  4. #7729
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,776
    I will say one positive thing about the state exchanges, however. They were a good idea, as it was a place where people could apply for insurance and be matched with the policy that best fit their needs. Unfortunately, all of the red tape and hoops that were put before the insurers caused many to pull their products from those exchanges.

  5. #7730
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    100,723
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I will say one positive thing about the state exchanges, however. They were a good idea, as it was a place where people could apply for insurance and be matched with the policy that best fit their needs. Unfortunately, all of the red tape and hoops that were put before the insurers caused many to pull their products from those exchanges.
    Yes because clearly define rules of how to operate is a bad idea for companies offering insurance to people…

  6. #7731
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,776
    The exchanges were the best feature of Obamacare. The biggest problem was that the state licensing requirements continued, and that is what caused many companies to drop off them. Had it been a national exchange, with one set of rules, rather than 52, it might have been better.

  7. #7732
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    43,198
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    The exchanges were the best feature of Obamacare. The biggest problem was that the state licensing requirements continued, and that is what caused many companies to drop off them. Had it been a national exchange, with one set of rules, rather than 52, it might have been better.
    I agree, a single National exchange would have been better.

  8. #7733
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Have you looked at the state exchanges? United Healthcare is the only company consistently on the state exchanges. Others have dropped off due to the red tape and hoops they have to jump through. Other insurance carriers are still licensed in states, but are only sold through private agents.
    Let me be more specific.

    A monopoly is the logical conclusion for any capitalist system to reach without some sort of government intervention.

    WHat did ObamaCare do to cause this to happen more than it already was?

    If you're complaint is that ObamaCare didn't do enough to stop these system (hence like Valade said a nationalized system) then I'm on board with that.

    But if you are trying to tell me ObamaCare was some super friendly legislation to help insurance companies, then I'm going to need proof of that.

  9. #7734
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    100,723
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    The exchanges were the best feature of Obamacare. The biggest problem was that the state licensing requirements continued, and that is what caused many companies to drop off them. Had it been a national exchange, with one set of rules, rather than 52, it might have been better.
    It sounds like you are referring to the state compacts that can be setup between multiple states.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  10. #7735
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    75,102
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Let me be more specific.

    A monopoly is the logical conclusion for any capitalist system to reach without some sort of government intervention.

    WHat did ObamaCare do to cause this to happen more than it already was?

    If you're complaint is that ObamaCare didn't do enough to stop these system (hence like Valade said a nationalized system) then I'm on board with that.

    But if you are trying to tell me ObamaCare was some super friendly legislation to help insurance companies, then I'm going to need proof of that.
    If the criticism is "it's not nationalized" then it doesn't take too much to end up at "the insurance companies are happy about this".

    The public option never made it into the final Obamacare bill. Who, above all else, do you think was happy about that? The ACA being viewed as some level a gift to the insurance industry is a really common criticism I feel like.

    Obamacare did do a lot of good but there's no reason to white knight it. We should expect and want more
    HELLO

  11. #7736
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    If the criticism is "it's not nationalized" then it doesn't take too much to end up at "the insurance companies are happy about this".

    The public option never made it into the final Obamacare bill. Who, above all else, do you think was happy about that? The ACA being viewed as some level a gift to the insurance industry is a really common criticism I feel like.

    Obamacare did do a lot of good but there's no reason to white knight it. We should expect and want more
    You clearly don't understand my argument.

  12. #7737
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,464
    He's saying that ObamaCare created monopolies.

    So if his argument is that passing ObamaCare caused monopolies, he's essentially saying the passing of ObamaCare made the problem worse.

    He's not arguing that "insurance companies are happy that ObamaCare didn't have a Public Option (obviously since he doesn't want a nationalized system). He's saying that ObamaCare made the situation worse, and I'm saying ObamaCare didn't make the situation any worse or better (in regard to insurance).
    Last edited by MRSpock; 08-02-2021 at 07:44 PM.

  13. #7738
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,776
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Let me be more specific.

    A monopoly is the logical conclusion for any capitalist system to reach without some sort of government intervention.

    WHat did ObamaCare do to cause this to happen more than it already was?

    If you're complaint is that ObamaCare didn't do enough to stop these system (hence like Valade said a nationalized system) then I'm on board with that.

    But if you are trying to tell me ObamaCare was some super friendly legislation to help insurance companies, then I'm going to need proof of that.
    Actually, I mentioned the national system earlier in the thread, but that is neither here nor there. Obamacare had enough red tape and hoops for companies to jump through to be on the state exchanges, most companies decided to forgo the exchanges and continue to sell through local agents.
    And yes, Obamacare made the problem worse for those who buy insurance. The rates increased dramatically following the passage of that law.
    Anecdotally, my health insurance went from $480/month for a family plan to $805/month for a single plan between 2010 and 2017. My wife died of cancer in 2103, so I no longer needed the family plan and figured it would save me some money. I was mistaken.
    Last edited by catman; 08-02-2021 at 08:33 PM.

  14. #7739
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
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    6,776
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It sounds like you are referring to the state compacts that can be setup between multiple states.
    That is what I am saying. Unfortunately, some states don't want to participate in these agreements.

  15. #7740
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Actually, I mentioned the national system earlier in the thread, but that is neither here nor there. Obamacare had enough red tape and hoops for companies to jump through to be on the state exchanges, most companies decided to forgo the exchanges and continue to sell through local agents.
    And yes, Obamacare made the problem worse for those who buy insurance. The rates increased dramatically following the passage of that law.
    Anecdotally, my health insurance went from $480/month for a family plan to $805/month for a single plan between 2010 and 2017. My wife died of cancer in 2103, so I no longer needed the family plan and figured it would save me some money. I was mistaken.
    The rate increase was happening anyways. With or without Obama Care. The increase quickly following the passage of the law further proves my point, because ObamaCare took 5 years to be implemented following the passing of the law. Health insurance was skyrocketing already before ObamaCare.

    It's like you're trying to convince me the market would of regulated itself (even though it wasn't because insurance was still too expensive for millions of Americans).

    What are examples of this red tape that caused private insurance to go up?

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