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  1. #3001
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    It is crazy how people have settled into the idea that colleges should leave students with crippling debt. LIke that is how it should be. News flash, it wasn't always that way. Somewhere down the line, a decision or policies were made that cause these problems. An increase that started during the Reagan administration of cutting taxes and spending. Some colleges were free in California if I remember right.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-18-2021 at 06:30 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

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  2. #3002
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    why bother?
    Its really because you dont have a legitimate counterpoint.

  3. #3003
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    It is crazy how people have settled into the idea that colleges should leave students with crippling debt. LIke that is how it should be. News flash, it wasn't always that way. Somewhere down the line, a decision or policies were made that cause these problems. An increase that started during the Reagan administration of cutting taxes and spending. Some colleges were free in California if I remember right.
    I do agree, tuition rates have gone up way too much in the last 20-30 years and something needs to be done about it.

    On the flipside, tuition fees don't always correlate to a better education. I work in college academics as well as in another job in Athletics, and I see so many high school age kids have a perception of they need to attend X university in order to be looked at successfully amongst their peers, when in reality there are dozens of opportunities that will provide them with a similar, if not better educational experience and not cripple them in debt. I ask my athletes where they want to go to school and probably at least 75% of them say Northwestern, Iowa, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc (obviously I live in the midwest). Many of these kids are not fast enough to get any sort of athletic scholarship at these places either, but they don't care they just want the big name university attached to their name and don't care how it will affect them in their 20s/30s.

    I applaud the ones who state they want to go to this smaller D2 or D3 school because it has the better degree program they are looking for, and don't care about the optics of not attending one of these huge D1 schools with tuition rates of 40-50K + per year.

  4. #3004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    I'm not really for the heavy student loan forgiveness as well. Just can't find a way in my head to make it even close to fair for American people.

    Person X just took out 50k in loans and now has them forgiven (without potentially working a day in their life).
    Person Y just finished struggling for the last 10 years and just finished paying off 50k in debt.

    I think doing something huge like 50k student loan relief will just create chaos on this issue. A smaller one of roughly 5k along with cutting out interest I think is the better idea, as well as not requiring any payment until at least this summer if not the fall.

    Curious what others think.
    Loans and CC are often predatory.

    Just because someone had to struggle through something doesn't make it unfair to improve the process going forward.

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  5. #3005
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Loans and CC are often predatory.

    Just because someone had to struggle through something doesn't make it unfair to improve the process going forward.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Fix tuition rates. That is how the process I believe should be improved going forward.

    And I agree student advisors can be predatory, I've seen it first hand 15 years ago when I worked for Kaplan University. But usually not at the likes of the major universities. The for-profit institutions (which I admit is the industry I still work in) are the ones that have in the past had shady tactics to bring in students on false promises of future earnings. But those universities tuition fees usually are a fraction of the larger institutions that can have just as much of a crippling effect.

    The predatory universities should still be hammered down on as they have in the past and continue to do so. But some kids don't care about the cost, they again just want to put whatever big name university next to their name.

  6. #3006
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Loans and CC are often predatory.

    Just because someone had to struggle through something doesn't make it unfair to improve the process going forward.

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    Loans and CC aren't predatory. People can have those things and be responsible with paying for them. Credit cards are great if you use them properly and if you have good credit. A home or car loan can be super beneficial as well. Yes, I'm aware factors change in people's lives but the system isn't all bad.

    Student loans, on the other hand, can be very predatory. They affect minorities disproportionately and they don't guarantee you the outcome you are hoping for. At least when you get a loan for a car or home you are getting what the loan was intended for. Yes, college loans to pay for the opportunity at college but its also money lent with the intentions of getting a career in the field you major in. That's far from a certitude.

    Not saying every Tom, Dick, and Harry should expect a career if they get a philosophy degree but there are plenty of practical real world degrees that don't have significant career paths.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-18-2021 at 07:06 PM.

  7. #3007
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Loans and CC aren't predatory. People can have those things and be responsible with paying for them. Credit cards are great if you use them properly and if you have good credit. A home or car loan can be super beneficial as well. Yes, I'm aware factors change in people's lives but the system isn't all bad.

    Student loans, on the other hand, can be very predatory. They affect minorities disproportionately and they don't guarantee you the outcome you are hoping for. At least when you get a loan for a car or home you are getting what the loan was intended for. Yes, college loans to pay for the opportunity at college but its also money lent with the intentions of getting a career in the field you major in. That's far from a certitude.

    Not saying every Tom, Dick, and Harry should expect a career if they get a philosophy degree but there are plenty of practical real world degrees that don't have significant career paths.
    Yes, the system is beneficial to those that don't have financial struggles. That will never change.

    It should be changed to be more beneficial those that struggle.


    Having financial struggles does not mean you are irresponsible.

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  8. #3008
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Yes, the system is beneficial to those that don't have financial struggles. That will never change.

    It should be changed to be more beneficial those that struggle.


    Having financial struggles does not mean you are irresponsible.

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    No it doesn't and I agree bankruptcy or consolidating payments (which ruins your credit) shouldn't be the only options in fixing it. Neither should people be 10-100s of thousands of dollars in credit card or loan debt. That said, a lot of people do make bad decisions with loans and more so credit cards.

    There needs to be some personal accountability on that end.

    I understand your point though. Some people need credit cards to survive and it becomes a reality where they are indebted to those companies forever. It can be a vicious circle.

  9. #3009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    I'm not really for the heavy student loan forgiveness as well. Just can't find a way in my head to make it even close to fair for American people.

    Person X just took out 50k in loans and now has them forgiven (without potentially working a day in their life).
    Person Y just finished struggling for the last 10 years and just finished paying off 50k in debt.

    I think doing something huge like 50k student loan relief will just create chaos on this issue. A smaller one of roughly 5k along with cutting out interest I think is the better idea, as well as not requiring any payment until at least this summer if not the fall.

    Curious what others think.
    I don’t know. 50,000 sounds like an awful lot. While it is great for the debt holders it has to have negative consequences as well. I don’t think if it is fair to the borrowers that already paid should matter. Does it provide the greatest good for the greatest number? I don’t know the answer but I think that is the question you should ask


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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #3010
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    Whatever amount they talk about, I don't quite get why they're talking specific dollar amounts vs X percent of debt or X percent of cost.

    Or yeah, maybe they set interest at 0 for 5 years and add an amount to be given to anyone who has made loan payments, even if their loan is cleared, in the last 5 years.

    And maybe amounts are also income based, reduced similar to stim checks
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #3011
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I don’t know. 50,000 sounds like an awful lot. While it is great for the debt holders it has to have negative consequences as well. I don’t think if it is fair to the borrowers that already paid should matter. Does it provide the greatest good for the greatest number? I don’t know the answer but I think that is the question you should ask


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    It's a ton of debt and anyone with that much in student loan debt would be benefit greatly from it. But really how is it different from any other debt the American people have that Covid has affected their ability to pay it off? People can't pay their mortgages. Should everyone with a mortgage get 50k of mortgage relief?

    While Covid is now 1 year in the making, it's shouldn't be like this forever. Most people with 50k + in student loan debt I'm sure didn't think they were going to pay it off in 2 years or less. The government can stop all student loan payments until the country is fully reopened. I don't think a 1.5-2 year pandemic should absolve anyone of 50k in debt they took on before Covid hit.

    I'd be less hesitant with a smaller amount of 10k or less, but prefer as SiteWolf mentioned a % of their debt.
    Last edited by Pierzynski4Prez; 02-18-2021 at 10:46 PM.

  12. #3012
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    Joe Biden's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    It's a ton of debt and anyone with that much in student loan debt would be benefit greatly from it. But really how is it different from any other debt the American people have that Covid has affected their ability to pay it off? People can't pay their mortgages. Should everyone with a mortgage get 50k of mortgage relief?

    While Covid is now 1 year in the making, it's shouldn't be like this forever. Most people with 50k + in student loan debt I'm sure didn't think they were going to pay it off in 2 years or less. The government can stop all student loan payments until the country is fully reopened. I don't think a 1.5-2 year pandemic should absolve anyone of 50k in debt they took on before Covid hit.

    I'd be less hesitant with a smaller amount of 10k or less, but prefer as SiteWolf mentioned a % of their debt.
    I agree with you. My gut leans towards Sitewolf’s ideas as well. They sound like good ideas. I think don’t searching for “fairness” and comparing different kinds of debt relief based on the notion if “fairness” is the correct approach.


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    Last edited by ewing; 02-19-2021 at 10:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #3013
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Why?

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    It's the right thing to do. Why should folks that run up voluntary debt be covered by American's for their mistakes?
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  14. #3014
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Its really because you dont have a legitimate counterpoint.
    Tell me what you'd accept as a starter.
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  15. #3015
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Yes, the system is beneficial to those that don't have financial struggles. That will never change.

    It should be changed to be more beneficial those that struggle.


    Having financial struggles does not mean you are irresponsible.

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    Not necessarily, I agree. However if you took out more money to go to a more expensive college that is on you.

    I said this before, if there is going to be some sort of college debt forgiveness than you take the cheapest college and that is the money you "forgive" to each student. As a way of negotiation I'd even say the cheapest college for your degree as this would be fair to everyone's degree choice. Anything over that amount is 100% on the person that choose to "gamble" on a more expensive institution.

    And say an amount passes, whatever that is. Say it passes in the next couple of months. What about those that will be going to college this summer or fall? What about those in 2024? 2030? 2036?
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