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  1. #10936
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Then what'd the ****ing point of pressuring him?
    To try and get movement as I said to where you donít have to give up any of the main parts.

    Also because I think we know the reason that wonít happen is because of who manchin is/the ties you donít think mean much but others may. I donít think there is much reason to support people like that holding up policy to help America as I said.


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  2. #10937
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Passive aggressive douche lol. Anyways I've had enough of this dog sniffing my *******.

    Sorry for the damage I clearly did months ago. Hope this filled your cup. Any more opinions you want me to have so you can blindly attack them like a dumbass? No? K cool.
    You are the one clearly bothered look at the one throwing around insults lol. I just call out partisan bs. That often includes you so you get all upset.


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  3. #10938
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    Dec 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    To try and get movement as I said to where you donít have to give up any of the main parts.

    Also because I think we know the reason that wonít happen is because of who manchin is/the ties you donít think mean much but others may. I donít think there is much reason to support people like that holding up policy to help America as I said.


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    Or maybe it won't happen because it's a really stupid idea that has a 99% chance of failure.

  4. #10939
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You are the one clearly bothered look at the one throwing around insults lol. I just call out partisan bs. That often includes you so you get all upset.


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    No. You're an *** pained progressive who doesn't understand political strategy in the slightest.

    Anyways good talk scooter. Maybe next time you'll get that gotcha you're so desperate for.

  5. #10940
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    Dec 2017
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    After reading your posts again I think I've gotten a pretty clear view of your politics. Correct me if I'm wrong

    1. You want the Dems to become the Progressive party (or collapse and make room for a progressive party).

    2. You think losing guys like Manchin and moving the party further left will gain more political support than it'll lose in the long term. So it's a win win for you. Either pressure Manchin into a vote or get rid of Manchin.

    3. You think progressives have policies that everyone wants. And if the Dems went full lefty a massive wave of support would follow.

    Am I close?

  6. #10941
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    Jun 2012
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    My biggest gripe with Manchin is even Collins falls in line when the vote is needed. I completely understand how he has to stay contrarian enough to the dem party to ensure heís re elected in a ruby red state.

    And even if he wasnít going to do this for the infrastructure, he absolutely should toe the line for a voting rights bill that would be absolutely transformational and should have put the republicans out of reach of the house for the foreseeable future barring a real change to their party.

    They should have really gone for the throat in trying to admit DC and PR as states as well.

    Sinema, Iím at least hopeful for a primary in the future. Cause sheís just making enemies all throughout the party for no reason. She doesnít need to be how sheís being to get re elected in a blue trending state.

    Id actually respect the independent streaks that arenít tied directly to the party wayÖ. If we were in a more neutral political climate that wasnít trench warfare in trying to get to an even playing field, it would be great.

    But Mitch and republicans, especially at the state level, are twisting every possible advantage they can (extreme gerrymandering for one). And thatís before taking into account the natural advantages the system has just as constructed (senate for example).


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  7. #10942
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    everything on the human infrastructure bill that is being ripped out are things the base want it isn't about progressive or moderate. Nationally among all voters, 70 % want a wealth tax and raising the corp. tax rate but Sinema didn't want it so it was ditched.

    You know what? If the democrat party can't understand that delivering what their base want gets votes, they should lose this mid-term. You are fighting for ideology, donors and team play not what the base want.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #10943
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    My biggest gripe with Manchin is even Collins falls in line when the vote is needed. I completely understand how he has to stay contrarian enough to the dem party to ensure heís re elected in a ruby red state.

    And even if he wasnít going to do this for the infrastructure, he absolutely should toe the line for a voting rights bill that would be absolutely transformational and should have put the republicans out of reach of the house for the foreseeable future barring a real change to their party.

    They should have really gone for the throat in trying to admit DC and PR as states as well.

    Sinema, Iím at least hopeful for a primary in the future. Cause sheís just making enemies all throughout the party for no reason. She doesnít need to be how sheís being to get re elected in a blue trending state.

    Id actually respect the independent streaks that arenít tied directly to the party wayÖ. If we were in a more neutral political climate that wasnít trench warfare in trying to get to an even playing field, it would be great.

    But Mitch and republicans, especially at the state level, are twisting every possible advantage they can (extreme gerrymandering for one). And thatís before taking into account the natural advantages the system has just as constructed (senate for example).


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    I would check Manchin's voting record.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

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  9. #10944
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Read your own source. The Generals urged him against withdrawing from Afghanistan, so he absolutely deserves credit for doing so if the Generals didnít want him to.
    how about not going against the experts that would know better.


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  10. #10945
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    He moved it back because they either weren't ready to pull out or they had intelligence that wasn't giving them the go on an earlier date. Follow along. Whatever it was, they then planned a day where they pulled out. I don't know what you're arguing. I said their withdrawal was done haphazardly but they're still out.
    they had people/experts saying something and Biden still didn't listen.

    if Trump did that no way would the same media say it was a success.

    the point is Joe Biden should not get credit for Afghanistan, while he certainly deserves blame for what happened.


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    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome


  11. #10946
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    Joe Biden's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    they had people/experts saying something and Biden still didn't listen.

    if Trump did that no way would the same media say it was a success.

    the point is Joe Biden should not get credit for Afghanistan, while he certainly deserves blame for what happened.
    Some people in the military wanted the military to do stuff. That is neither surprising nor does it mean Biden does or doesnít deserve credit.


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    Last edited by ewing; 10-28-2021 at 09:56 AM.
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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #10947
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    So who gets the credit for getting us out of Afghanistan if it isn't the president who order it? Trump, the trumpists, republicans anybody but Biden who ordered it?

    Please enlighten me so I can send a thank you card for ending our war there. That is the most important part, ending a conflict, but it seems it isn't for you.

    I wonder why Trump didn't get us out when he promises he would. I am sure he would done a better job. He is he chosen one.

    In the name of the Orange Man, the idiot son and wanton hussy, go in peace.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  13. #10948
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Some people in this military wanted the military to do stuff. That is neither surprising nor does it mean Biden does or doesnít deserve credit.


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    ewing, would you not agree that when President Trump went against his advisors, he was criticized and when President Biden does, the treatment is vastly different?
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  14. #10949
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    they had people/experts saying something and Biden still didn't listen.

    if Trump did that no way would the same media say it was a success.

    the point is Joe Biden should not get credit for Afghanistan, while he certainly deserves blame for what happened.
    Who said how Biden did it was a success? I saw a lot of rightful criticism from a ton of people on how he withdrew. Not just among the media but also American people. Btw, I'm not interested in your links or tweets from whoever u are going to source.

    Yeah and if Biden had listened to his generals (who were against withdrawal), we would have still been in Afghanistan.

    No, he deserves credit for leaving. As by your logic, credit and blame fall on the president who is in office as those events unfold. You don't get to weasel your way out of a logic chain you created.
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-28-2021 at 10:59 AM.

  15. #10950
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I would check Manchin's voting record.
    Do we still have a filibuster? Have we passed federal voting reforms to end things like gerrymandering?

    If Sinema is the true hold up Iíd get him not signaling it before heís need to ala Susan Collins, but I have a feeling heís the hold up versus her here.

    So why am I checking Manchinís voting record again? Heís also the one torpedoing a good portion of Bidenís agenda, so heís making the party bend to him as opposed to otherwise. I think he could have bent a good deal more than he did without risking his spot.


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