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  1. #10921
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What do you mean? Just because you are having issues responding to what I say doesn't mean it hasn't been explained.

    I want them to put pressure on those within holding back progress like Manchin/Sinema. Censure, call out, possibly support others to run against them etc. it has been covered. That's how I want them to react.
    Lol. Your an absolute moron. None of these things will put pressure on Manchin. You are so laughably ignorant.

  2. #10922
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Pivot away to another thing I never said. I never defended Manchkns vote. My literal points were.

    1. We shouldn't conclude corruption without a lot of evidence.

    2. I understand and empathize and respect with their fears in this scenario.

    That doesn't mean I agree with Manchins vote
    That doesn't mean I'm OK with every fear someone ever has swaying their vote.

    So again. Stop assuming my position. You ****in pathetic clown.
    1. I shared a lot of information about corruption, we also shouldn't just dismiss it. You didn't even comment on it at all, you know there are some questionable things. It isn't proven at all but we if you want to talk about being a moron... I mean the obvious is obvious.

    2. Perfect. That is what I have said too earlier about having empathy but not respecting the actual fear. You can understand why people are afraid of election security. It doesn't mean you agree at all with all the craziness that went on.

    You simply weren't making it clear and were focused on insults and ignoring my points. I can easily respond to each point because I am not the one playing dumb and trying to dance around the questions. Last time I did this you ignored most of my post to... insult me. Oh, how common from you.

  3. #10923
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Lol. Your an absolute moron. None of these things will put pressure on Manchin. You are so laughably ignorant.
    haha speaking of ignoring what I say for insults...

    You can have that opinion, I think that is what should be done. Porter/AOC/Bernie have all done so to an extent. I think others should keep chiming in too. People in his home state have I believe as well. Good.

  4. #10924
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    1. I shared a lot of information about corruption, we also shouldn't just dismiss it. You didn't even comment on it at all, you know there are some questionable things. It isn't proven at all but we if you want to talk about being a moron... I mean the obvious is obvious.

    2. Perfect. That is what I have said too earlier about having empathy but not respecting the actual fear. You can understand why people are afraid of election security. It doesn't mean you agree at all with all the craziness that went on.

    You simply weren't making it clear and were focused on insults and ignoring my points. I can easily respond to each point because I am not the one playing dumb and trying to dance around the questions. Last time I did this you ignored most of my post to... insult me. Oh, how common from you.
    You literally started with a Fox News level trap question. But sure. Put all responsibility onto me I guess.

    If your evidence is simply his dinors that's not good enough for me.

    I avoided your bullsht trap question because it was a garbage question.

    I don't have any problem responding to your points if I believe you are being genuinely curious. Not just making traps and assuming my positions. Of course I'm going to be on the defensive when you're trying to set me up and making false assumptions.

    You aren't the least bit interested in my opinion. You are trying to get a gotcha moment. Nothing more.

  5. #10925
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Yup which is why I highly doubt we see much of that immediately even if I wish we would.

    Maybe. The more you compromise and cater to people like him though the harder it is to gain support needed for larger change. You lose voters over time as they realize little is ever actually changing despite the promises.
    So we shouldn't try to negotiate deals because it'll somehow hurt are future goals? Based on what evidence exactly? Till we get more seats... hate to break it to you... this is how politics works. You don't normally get what you want. You have to compromise.

  6. #10926
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    You literally started with a Fox News level trap question. But sure. Put all responsibility onto me I guess.

    If your evidence is simply his dinors that's not good enough for me.

    I avoided your bullsht trap question because it was a garbage question.

    I don't have any problem responding to your points if I believe you are being genuinely curious. Not just making traps and assuming my positions. Of course I'm going to be on the defensive when you're trying to set me up and making false assumptions.

    You aren't the least bit interested in my opinion. You are trying to get a gotcha moment. Nothing more.
    I made it very clear where I was going, yes. You freaked out about it instead of just responding normally to the points being made.

    The articles pointed out more than just that. It doesn't need to be good enough for you either, most can see it. Porter called it out. The recording, his family coal companies, article on his daughters work donations/epi pen issue, exxon lobbyist claim of constant communication. There is probably more too but I mean you aren't really interested in a discussion you just wanna insult as I noted.

    Most can kinda figure out what Manchin is even if you can't. It doesn't take a gotcha moment to make someone look silly.

  7. #10927
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I made it very clear where I was going, yes. You freaked out about it instead of just responding normally to the points being made.

    The articles pointed out more than just that. It doesn't need to be good enough for you either, most can see it. Porter called it out. The recording, his family coal companies, article on his daughters work donations/epi pen issue, exxon lobbyist claim of constant communication. There is probably more too but I mean you aren't really interested in a discussion you just wanna insult as I noted.

    Most can kinda figure out what Manchin is even if you can't. It doesn't take a gotcha moment to make someone look silly.
    None of this is proof of corruption. Not even close.

  8. #10928
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    So we shouldn't try to negotiate deals because it'll somehow hurt are future goals? Based on what evidence exactly? Till we get more seats... hate to break it to you... this is how politics works. You don't normally get what you want. You have to compromise.
    I never said don't try to negotiate. I just said apply as much pressure as you can to avoid compromising. Eventually you might have something that works, we will see what comes out of it.

    You can probably make some changes to the initial 3.5 trillion 10 year bill without truly compromising it though. The issue is we know who Manchin is and it isn't just going to be a little bit of the fat cut off the top if you will. It may actually become a bit worse as we often see (based on some reports but who knows where it ends). If you have something in the 2.5-3 range where you have kept most of the promises/key parts but limited the "lesser known provisions" for example it could still work. Or find a better/more ways to pay it off would work as well to still get most of the key aspects (community college/child care/medicare expansion/drug prics/tax credit/paid leave/climate change)
    Last edited by mngopher35; 10-28-2021 at 03:30 AM.

  9. #10929
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    None of this is proof of corruption. Not even close.
    It's almost like I already said that.

    Most people aren't blind to the type of politician Manchin is either though.

  10. #10930
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    If anything this is just proof he has always had these beliefs.

    Corruption to me is someone who changes their position based off of a payout.

    Sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions based off your own bias.

  11. #10931
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I never said don't try to negotiate. I just said apply as much pressure as you can to avoid compromising. Eventually you might have something that works, we will see what comes out of it.

    You can probably make some changes to the initial 3.5 trillion 10 year bill without truly compromising it though. The issue is we know who Manchin is and it isn't just going to be a little bit of the fat cut off the top if you will. It may actually become a bit worse as we often see (based on some reports but who knows where it ends). If you have something in the 2.5-3 range where you have kept most of the promises/key parts but limited the "lesser known provisions" for example.
    Yes. Pressure him by talking **** about him. Which anyone with a brain will tell you the choices are Manchin or a Republican. Which you seem unable to comprehend.

    And you definitely suggested that compromising with Manchin hurts the Dems long term. Which again you have no proof of. These are just your own feelings.

    Because like all internet progressives you seen to think everyone agrees with you it's just the dems fault for not going hard enough. Because if they just pushed the policies you like they'd win every election.

    Now I know why you're trying so hard here. I took a dump on you like 6 months ago and you apparently still haven't recovered lol.
    Last edited by MRSpock; 10-28-2021 at 03:35 AM.

  12. #10932
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    If anything this is just proof he has always had these beliefs.

    Corruption to me is someone who changes their position based off of a payout.

    Sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions based off your own bias.
    What do you mean by this is proof he had these beliefs?

    You don't think based off that recording, his donations from daughters company working for, family ties to coal, lobbyists for exxon in constant communication it doesn't seem a little like he might be the guy profiting off certain industries? Lol. As I said most are not blind and even if there is no concrete evidence it's a little suspicious at least to most I would think.

  13. #10933
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Yes. Pressure him by talking **** about him. Which anyone with a brain will tell you the choices are Manchin or a Republican. Which you seem unable to comprehend.
    I have never denied that you may lose the seat lol. You just can't have an honest conversation.

  14. #10934
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I have never denied that you may lose the seat lol. You just can't have an honest conversation.
    Passive aggressive douche lol. Anyways I've had enough of this dog sniffing my *******.

    Sorry for the damage I clearly did months ago. Hope this filled your cup. Any more opinions you want me to have so you can blindly attack them like a dumbass? No? K cool.

  15. #10935
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I have never denied that you may lose the seat lol. You just can't have an honest conversation.
    Then what'd the ****ing point of pressuring him?

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