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  1. #8536
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Because you can be pre-symptomatic, test negative and still end up a positive covid case. You know how many of those presumably exist? The virus has a clear incubation period. Its not like you just get it the minute you come in contact with it. 80% of people having antibodies definitely suggests people have more exposure than you let on. That doesn't include all the people who had COVID and were never tested for it either. Its significantly more than the 40 million documented cases we have seen.

    83% but only 54% of people are fully vaccinated. So where is the math coming to? 46% of the US means 150 million people have still not been fully vaccinated.

    Where is that included? I haven't seen anything that suggests it up to the discretion of the employer to continue testing or not. That doesn't change the companies that are mandating vaccines irrespective of whether testing is an option. That's something you made up for hyperbole.

    Messenger RNA is not new to the medical field. It's been studied since the 1990s. You can find the ingredients in any COVID vaccine online. You seem to be a lot more concerned with those side effects than you do the long term effects of the virus btw.

    This isn't something that pulled out of thin air. Vaccines regularly go through bureaucratic red tape in their approval process, hence why they so many take 5 or more years to be in practical use (even when shown to be safe). That wasn't the case with covid vaccines. I guess the official FDA approval was just done for show as well.
    I don't think you want to go down the road of implying there are more cases than what are documented, it brings the 1.6% mortality rate down to H1N1 levels and we didn't shut anything down in 2009 for it.

    Furthermore, even if everyone is currently walking around with covid, if you're vaccinated, it won't kill you. So it still makes your original point an odd one.

    That full 46% will never be fully vaccinated. 15% of them are not even eligible for the shot (11 and under). Another 10% of them already have one dose, that could be from yesterday or March the data doesn't specify. What you're really looking at is about 21% of the population, 73 million Americans. Some percentage of that population have medical exemptions, some percentage of that population have religious exemptions, and some percentage are 12 to 17 (Pfizer is only FDA approved for 16+) cannot make the decision themselves. In actually, you and doctor dictator Joe are speaking about a much smaller percentage of the population than you realize.

    Since you won't pick, most vaccines go through decades of research, study, and testing prior to approval. Some take even centuries. The second fastest approval for a vaccine in the country to date was 4 years, for your own knowledge bank.

    Let's not talk about those within the FDA who resigned, had nothing to do with ethics one would assume, huh?

  2. #8537
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Look at you and your selective quoting.


    tyĚranĚniĚcal
    /təˈranək(ə)l/
    Learn to pronounce
    adjective
    exercising power in a cruel or arbitrary way.
    NBA doesnt know how to dictionary. As he already tried and failed with the word "partisan"

  3. #8538
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    There you go using words you don't know how to use again.

    Biden does not have absolute power, as has already been pointed out once.
    Nice rebuttal Nate, zero checks and balances to enact the mandate.

  4. #8539
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Lol. I like how a couple days ago you were *****ing about Biden failing to stop CoVid. And i asked you 3 times how hes suppose to do it and you of course refused to respond.

    Now he does something and hes the worst president ever? Lol.

    Do you have any policies you support? Any opinions that arent reactionary?
    Biden will contradict this speech in short order, it is his M.O.

  5. #8540
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I don't think you want to go down the road of implying there are more cases than what are documented, it brings the 1.6% mortality rate down to H1N1 levels and we didn't shut anything down in 2009 for it.

    Furthermore, even if everyone is currently walking around with covid, if you're vaccinated, it won't kill you. So it still makes your original point an odd one.

    That full 46% will never be fully vaccinated. 15% of them are not even eligible for the shot (11 and under). Another 10% of them already have one dose, that could be from yesterday or March the data doesn't specify. What you're really looking at is about 21% of the population, 73 million Americans. Some percentage of that population have medical exemptions, some percentage of that population have religious exemptions, and some percentage are 12 to 17 (Pfizer is only FDA approved for 16+) cannot make the decision themselves. In actually, you and doctor dictator Joe are speaking about a much smaller percentage of the population than you realize.

    Since you won't pick, most vaccines go through decades of research, study, and testing prior to approval. Some take even centuries. The second fastest approval for a vaccine in the country to date was 4 years, for your own knowledge bank.

    Let's not talk about those within the FDA who resigned, had nothing to do with ethics one would assume, huh?
    Man do you ever say anything remotely intelligent.

  6. #8541
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    You assume we're also aware of every COVID death when we're almost certainly not.

    There were 60.8 million cases of H1N1 and 12,469 deaths in the US and between 151,700 - 575,400 deaths worldwide in the 2009 pandemic.

    We're up to 40.7 million cases in the US and adding 170,000 a day currently, and 656,000 deaths and adding over 3000 a day. Even if you want to try to compare the death rate, it's abundantly clear that this is nothing like H1N1.

    mRNA vaccines aren't new. They've been in development for years already.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

    It turns out, when you pour a bunch more money and resources into vaccine development than normal, things can be done more quickly.

  7. #8542
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Nice rebuttal Nate, zero checks and balances to enact the mandate.
    Checks and balances don't pop in and out of existence depending on whether or not someone engages one of the other branches of government.

    I can only assume you were similarly apoplectic over the last guy's executive orders.

  8. #8543
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I don't think you want to go down the road of implying there are more cases than what are documented, it brings the 1.6% mortality rate down to H1N1 levels and we didn't shut anything down in 2009 for it.

    Furthermore, even if everyone is currently walking around with covid, if you're vaccinated, it won't kill you. So it still makes your original point an odd one.

    That full 46% will never be fully vaccinated. 15% of them are not even eligible for the shot (11 and under). Another 10% of them already have one dose, that could be from yesterday or March the data doesn't specify. What you're really looking at is about 21% of the population, 73 million Americans. Some percentage of that population have medical exemptions, some percentage of that population have religious exemptions, and some percentage are 12 to 17 (Pfizer is only FDA approved for 16+) cannot make the decision themselves. In actually, you and doctor dictator Joe are speaking about a much smaller percentage of the population than you realize.

    Since you won't pick, most vaccines go through decades of research, study, and testing prior to approval. Some take even centuries. The second fastest approval for a vaccine in the country to date was 4 years, for your own knowledge bank.

    Let's not talk about those within the FDA who resigned, had nothing to do with ethics one would assume, huh?
    H1NI killed 284,000 people worldwide. 12,000 people in the US. COVID has killed that many people in the US in the last 8 days. I don't know what your point is in comparing the two. One was clearly contained and at the very least wasn't nearly as deadly or problematic.

    The issue is the continuing spread of the virus. It's not just a matter of those who are vaccinated are safe. Its a matter of there being potentially vaccine resistant strains. You know like what they're seeing in the Mu variant for example. That happens as the virus continues to see more hosts and mutates.

    The vaccine will eventually be approved for children so you can add in that 15%. Of that 10% that have one vaccination you would hope most receive their 2nd dose and the FDA approval/the delta variant stories have and will sway more unvaccinated people to be vaccinated. Not the % you would hope for but it has certainly made a difference. Just because people aren't eligible to be vaccinated doesn't change their vaccination status, nor their ability to contract and spread the virus.

    Add in those % of people who have received one dose or are kids and now we're talking about 79% of American people who would be fully vaccinated. Far more than the 54% that we currently see. I know the math doesn't work that way but there's significantly more people who can and presumably will be fully vaccinated at some point.

    4 years and that was the Mumps vaccine in 1967. You do realize that we've come a long way in medical technology and research in 50 years, don't you? Surely you do because you left that detail out as it compromises your position.

    I don't know why they resigned. Could be bureaucratic, could be political, could be a difference in ideology. I know this FDA approval to you was prima facie but you had clinical trials going on since the beginning of 2020 and a technology used to design the vaccine that started 30 years ago.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-10-2021 at 08:14 AM.

  9. #8544
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Biden will contradict this speech in short order, it is his M.O.
    GASP! Unlike every US president in history!

    If you knew any history youd **** your pants at how the greatest presidents in history took away rights, lied and exaggerated in order to save lives and make massive changes.

  10. #8545
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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371787/

    Btw to the false claim that coronavirus vaccine methodology and analysis is new. It's not. Try medical research papers from 2005.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-10-2021 at 06:53 AM.

  11. #8546
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    GASP! Unlike every US president in history!

    If you knew any history youd **** your pants at how the greatest presidents in history took away rights, lied and exaggerated in order to save lives and make massive changes.
    or push their agenda that might not be what the public want, ie Iran invasion. I am starting to realize people don't care much about history.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #8547
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    H1NI killed 284,000 people worldwide. 12,000 people in the US. COVID has killed that many people in the US in the last 8 days. I don't know what your point is in comparing the two. One was clearly contained and at the very least wasn't nearly as deadly or problematic.

    The issue is the continuing spread of the virus. It's not just a matter of those who are vaccinated are safe. Its a matter of there being potentially vaccine resistant strains. You know like what they're seeing in the Mu variant for example. That happens as the virus continues to see more hosts and mutates.

    The vaccine will eventually be approved for children so you can add in that 15%. Of that 10% that have one vaccination you would hope most receive their 2nd dose and the FDA approval/the delta variant stories have and will sway more unvaccinated people to be vaccinated. Not the % you would hope for but it has certainly made a difference. Just because people aren't eligible to be vaccinated doesn't change their vaccination status, nor their ability to contract and spread the virus.

    Add in those % of people who have received one dose or are kids and now we're talking about 79% of American people who would be fully vaccinated. Far more than the 54% that we currently see. I know the math doesn't work that way but there's significantly more people who can and presumably will be fully vaccinated at some point.

    4 years and that was the Mumps vaccine in 1967. You do realize that we've come a long way in medical technology and research in 50 years, don't you? Surely you do because you left that detail out as it compromises your position.

    I don't know why they resigned. Could be bureaucratic, could be political, could be a difference in ideology. I know this FDA approval to you was prima facie but you had clinical trials going on since the beginning of 2020 and a technology used to design the vaccine that started 30 years ago.
    How was H1N1 better contained when the US had 56 million cases in the first 12 months? It has been at minimum 20 months for Covid19 stateside and we only have 40 million cases. I brought it up bc if you want go down the road of there have actually been 80 million cases of covid (I don't disagree with your assertion) it brings the mortality rate down to 0.8%... Which starts making shutting everything down and mandatory vaccines look very political. Whatever number you think cases are above the 40 million weakens your argument, it does not strengthen it.

    So you think if we get 20% more of the population vaccinated in this country, that mutations will just stop? Did we go over where the Delta variant originated yet? Oh, India okay. But did we go over what the Delta variant mutated from yet? Oh Beta, and Beta was from where? Oh yeah, Africa. I don't think your argument holds much water.

    Why would I add in anyone under 12 yet? You can assume that and it may come true but at the point of this mandate, 15% of the population currently cannot recieve the shot, without a doubt. And no crap it doesn't change their status, it is extremely relevant though as to what percentage is achievable.

    It doesn't comprise the position at all, it is a single fact of speed for approval.

  13. #8548
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    How was H1N1 better contained when the US had 56 million cases in the first 12 months? It has been at minimum 20 months for Covid19 stateside and we only have 40 million cases. I brought it up bc if you want go down the road of there have actually been 80 million cases of covid (I don't disagree with your assertion) it brings the mortality rate down to 0.8%... Which starts making shutting everything down and mandatory vaccines look very political. Whatever number you think cases are above the 40 million weakens your argument, it does not strengthen it.

    So you think if we get 20% more of the population vaccinated in this country, that mutations will just stop? Did we go over where the Delta variant originated yet? Oh, India okay. But did we go over what the Delta variant mutated from yet? Oh Beta, and Beta was from where? Oh yeah, Africa. I don't think your argument holds much water.

    Why would I add in anyone under 12 yet? You can assume that and it may come true but at the point of this mandate, 15% of the population currently cannot recieve the shot, without a doubt. And no crap it doesn't change their status, it is extremely relevant though as to what percentage is achievable.

    It doesn't comprise the position at all, it is a single fact of speed for approval.
    Not when you compare death tolls. 12 thousand people dead over a strain of the flu (which some strain is commonplace yearly) is much different than a strain of coronavirus that is clearly more significant, more deadly, and taking a much bigger toll on our healthcare system. Like I said, 12 thousand people have died in the US from the coronavirus in the last 8 days.

    No mutations will exist but with more inoculations they can become less virulent and given less opportunity to exist in the first place. That's the point of getting as many people inoculated as possible and why boosters will become important until this virus has less potency. Vaccinations don't become useless just because you can't vaccinate 100% of the population. No one said to add in anyone under 12. You're the one who said that full 46% won't be fully vaccinated. I'd bet once there is approval for the COVID vaccine for kids under 12, that 15% will be and they'll become as common as the chicken pox, measles, mumps, DTAP, Polio, etc. How long do you think that's going to take btw? Certainly not decades. You're probably talking about the next 2-3 years.

    It absolutely compromises your position. If you know that something was approved in 4 years and has been proven to be universally safe (50 years ago mind you) then you know the same can certainly be a reality with far more advanced medical technology and less red tape in regards to the COVID vaccine. Especially when I just pointed out that they've been researching potential COVID vaccines since 2005. Its not as new as you like to hyperbolically suggest it is.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-10-2021 at 09:54 AM.

  14. #8549
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    If I set the over/under at 10 states, do you go over or under on the states that are going to sue the Federal government on President Biden's latest?
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  15. #8550
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    If I set the over/under at 10 states, do you go over or under on the states that are going to sue the Federal government on President Biden's latest?
    Don't know if it will matter. The government can mandate vaccines. There's legal precedent there. The Supreme Court will vote for communal public health over individual objections and have consistently for the last 100+ years. I would be really surprised if that changed here.

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