Week 8 IGT SNF - Dallas vs Eagles - IT'S DALLAS WEEK!

[abelugawhale]

I'm definitely putting a ton of the blame with this game on Wentz and we can't excuse his turnovers on the season

BUT..

I've been wondering whether the surroundings and coaching staff are bringing out the worst in Wentz. Last year he had to play hero ball, but he did that very efficiently so you could take some of the warts that came with that. This year though? We've seen much of the same with a worse banged up offensive line and someone who is constantly pressing.

I think the hero ball creeped in last year and changed Wentz mindset to some degree. Add in that we are super aggressive on 4th down and drafted a second round QB -- all of that is creating a cocktail of pressure.

I'm not sure what we can do about it this year...but I hope for all of us that he begins to live for another down again.

Makes me miss Frank Reich more and more with each passing day. He seems to have been the voice that could reel Carson in and help scheme the game. I unfortunately think barring much more drama between Doug and Howie that Doug will be around a year longer than maybe he should.

As for your assessment on Wentz pressing it's 100% accurate and unfortunately the environment for it was created when Foles won us that Super Bowl. You can see it in the media and with the team that people take for granted the team was 11-2 with Wentz and it gives him this bar that he's not going to clear as long as he's the QB on our team. I would like the Eagles to move on from Wentz because 1 they need to rebuild and get as far removed from 2017 as possible and 2. I want him to have an opportunity to succeed which I don't see happening here

[last stand]

I'm definitely putting a ton of the blame with this game on Wentz and we can't excuse his turnovers on the season

BUT..

I've been wondering whether the surroundings and coaching staff are bringing out the worst in Wentz. Last year he had to play hero ball, but he did that very efficiently so you could take some of the warts that came with that. This year though? We've seen much of the same with a worse banged up offensive line and someone who is constantly pressing.

I think the hero ball creeped in last year and changed Wentz mindset to some degree. Add in that we are super aggressive on 4th down and drafted a second round QB -- all of that is creating a cocktail of pressure.

I'm not sure what we can do about it this year...but I hope for all of us that he begins to live for another down again.

Well the benefit is QBs have shifted their mindsets in the past. People talk about the injuries

I remember the healthy games where he was still doing this. And last night against the worst defense in the nfl by far, and relatively healthy.

And he’s still doing it. I think it’s almost psychological with the fan base tbh. When everyone’s on the IR everyone including me ignores the bad plays. Because you’re like well everyone’s injured so he has to do everything.

Especially when he’s running for his life

But in games like last night where he actually does have time it’s significantly more noticeable. Yet a lot of fans still blame other things. Like his second fumble. Line breaks down quicker than it should but if you actually watch the play. It’s clear who’s blitzing, and a QB would know it’s coming. It was I believe 6 on 5 against the offensive line. Meaning you have to get the ball out and you have to know based on your play who to get the ball to. And guess what. When you watch the play both ward and reagor are wide open right in front of his face. And what’s concerning is with the blitz coming from linebackers he made his first read to the right side of the field instead of the middle of the field which was clearly vacant pre snap. So the line takes the blame again for wentz making a bad play. Yes you likely take a hit there no matter what but you also get the ball out quickly for a likely first down.

His INTs also. Who throws the ball up straight in the air? Just lower the trajectory lol. Especially if you know it’s windy lol

There are real concerns and it’s not about his surroundings. This wentz shows up with our without his guys. It just looks better without them because then you can say “he needs to do it”

[BDawk4Prez]

Doug even made mention it in his presser today. The health of the team hasn't;t done Wentz any favors. He's yet to get in any sort of rhythm with surrounding personnel. He isn't losing players, he's losing entire positions groups all at once. He's being asked to put trust in a revolving OL, revolving playmakers and having to do so al throughout the game each week at a higher rate than any other QB out there.

Should this excuse him, nope, but look at the two picks. He tried to let his guy (Hightower) go up and make a play on a jump ball, the wind obviously effected it. Short/intermediate routes he was near flawless. He missed on the HR balls. My biggest WTF moment was the sack/fumble the he got outside the pocket and just stood there and got blasted instead of throwing it away. I have no idea what the process is there on that one.

[last stand]

Makes me miss Frank Reich more and more with each passing day. He seems to have been the voice that could reel Carson in and help scheme the game. I unfortunately think barring much more drama between Doug and Howie that Doug will be around a year longer than maybe he should.

As for your assessment on Wentz pressing it's 100% accurate and unfortunately the environment for it was created when Foles won us that Super Bowl. You can see it in the media and with the team that people take for granted the team was 11-2 with Wentz and it gives him this bar that he's not going to clear as long as he's the QB on our team. I would like the Eagles to move on from Wentz because 1 they need to rebuild and get as far removed from 2017 as possible and 2. I want him to have an opportunity to succeed which I don't see happening here

What’s actually unfortunate is Doug is a great head coach. He is. But what he fails at is understanding when change is needed. It might be his downfall. Dude wrote a book after winning 1 super bowl. Has bill Belichick? Maybe he has idk but it’s weird

What I mean is Bill has always had really good coordinators and just is the head coach. Has a say in offense and defense like a head coach should but the coordinators handle the bulk

Doug is a great head man. His guys believe in him, they always play hard. He has developed a Patriots-esque next man up

But he can’t see the writing on the wall. He needs a real OC. He can’t be calling plays

[abelugawhale]

What’s actually unfortunate is Doug is a great head coach. He is. But what he fails at is understanding when change is needed. It might be his downfall. Dude wrote a book after winning 1 super bowl. Has bill Belichick? Maybe he has idk but it’s weird

What I mean is Bill has always had really good coordinators and just is the head coach. Has a say in offense and defense like a head coach should but the coordinators handle the bulk

Doug is a great head man. His guys believe in him, they always play hard. He has developed a Patriots-esque next man up

But he can’t see the writing on the wall. He needs a real OC. He can’t be calling plays

Jim Caldwell would have been a great OC for this team only downside is that he's older. I would have loved Graham Harrell as the OC, I think he's a young innovative mind that has gone slightly more under the radar compared to like a Lincoln Riley. I also think Ryan Day could be great, I just struggle to see him taking an OC job considering his success at Ohio State.

[last stand]

Doug even made mention it in his presser today. The health of the team hasn't;t done Wentz any favors. He's yet to get in any sort of rhythm with surrounding personnel. He isn't losing players, he's losing entire positions groups all at once. He's being asked to put trust in a revolving OL, revolving playmakers and having to do so al throughout the game each week at a higher rate than any other QB out there.

Should this excuse him, nope, but look at the two picks. He tried to let his guy (Hightower) go up and make a play on a jump ball, the wind obviously effected it. Short/intermediate routes he was near flawless. He missed on the HR balls. My biggest WTF moment was the sack/fumble the he got outside the pocket and just stood there and got blasted instead of throwing it away. I have no idea what the process is there on that one.

But see there’s the issue. You say on his 2 picks he tried to let his guy make the play. Go through most quarterbacks this past weekend. How many of them launch the ball straight into the air. Not loft it or float it at a lower trajectory. Launch it. Straight up. That’s not tossing it up to Hightower with any real chance. That’s strange

And I keep seeing this wind thing. Wind? Ya I’m pretty sure Carson wentz being on the field and experiencing it for himself should then know that throwing the ball almost like a punt straight in the air is a bad idea. Why doesn’t he know that? The wind is the opposite of an excuse. It’s actually further proof of another brain fart

[last stand]

Jim Caldwell would have been a great OC for this team only downside is that he's older. I would have loved Graham Harrell as the OC, I think he's a young innovative mind that has gone slightly more under the radar compared to like a Lincoln Riley. I also think Ryan Day could be great, I just struggle to see him taking an OC job considering his success at Ohio State.

My thing is I don’t want roseman or lurie to tell Doug he needs an OC. Then he’s forced and I don’t think that changes anything.

I want him to make that decision on his own because he’s humbled and realizes he needs the help. Then we’re onto something.

If it’s forced on him I just see him fighting it lol. Didn’t Jason Garrett call plays? And then jerry was like you need an OC.

Andy Reid calls plays but he has legitimately talented OCs. Doug was one of them lol.

Doug needs to get a real guy with real ideas by his own decision

[last stand]

I expect a different QB coming out of the bye.

Lol what? Hurts?

I seriously doubt that. It’s franchise suicide for the next 3 years at least while we deal with the contract no one will take

Unless he gets traded today or tomorrow

[abelugawhale]

Lol what? Hurts?

I seriously doubt that. It’s franchise suicide for the next 3 years at least while we deal with the contract no one will take

Unless he gets traded today or tomorrow

I think he meant a different version of Wentz, but I struggle to see any meaningful changes from his play between now and season's end.

[LLMunchie619]

Doug even made mention it in his presser today. The health of the team hasn't;t done Wentz any favors. He's yet to get in any sort of rhythm with surrounding personnel. He isn't losing players, he's losing entire positions groups all at once. He's being asked to put trust in a revolving OL, revolving playmakers and having to do so al throughout the game each week at a higher rate than any other QB out there.

Should this excuse him, nope, but look at the two picks. He tried to let his guy (Hightower) go up and make a play on a jump ball, the wind obviously effected it. Short/intermediate routes he was near flawless. He missed on the HR balls. My biggest WTF moment was the sack/fumble the he got outside the pocket and just stood there and got blasted instead of throwing it away. I have no idea what the process is there on that one.

Yeah, this is kind of what I was thinking about as well. I went back and watched that play and it looked like Wentz simply hesitated. He looked like he was thinking Goedert was going to turn around to make himself available, but he went out blocking thinking Wentz was going to run. Wentz hesitated in a slight moment of confusion and that can't happen in the NFL...but it did, and it was a mistake as a result of a lack of chemistry due to Goedert not being in the lineup lately.

The second fumble can't be put on Wentz...it was less than 2 seconds and vander esch was in his face because of a missed block.

The two picks were attempts at HR passes as you said...winds were 19 mph on average between 6pm and midnight...with a ball thrown 40+ yards (one really high) it will cost you a ton of accuracy. Now on the Hightower INT, Hightower was not able to adjust and Diggs made a great play. On the other one, Wentz attempted to throw it where only his guy could catch it, and Diggs made an amazing play again. Wentz is completely to blame on the both of these because he didn't need to force these passes. I also think Pederson needs to figure out that Wentz has been near lethal with passes under 20 yards in his career. Also, Scott was dicing up the defense and we didn't run the ball nearly enough. ...and where the hell is the RPO?!?!

[last stand]

Yeah, this is kind of what I was thinking about as well. I went back and watched that play and it looked like Wentz simply hesitated. He looked like he was thinking Goedert was going to turn around to make himself available, but he went out blocking thinking Wentz was going to run. Wentz hesitated in a slight moment of confusion and that can't happen in the NFL...but it did, and it was a mistake as a result of a lack of chemistry due to Goedert not being in the lineup lately.

The second fumble can't be put on Wentz...it was less than 2 seconds and vander esch was in his face because of a missed block.

The two picks were attempts at HR passes as you said...winds were 19 mph on average between 6pm and midnight...with a ball thrown 40+ yards (one really high) it will cost you a ton of accuracy. Now on the Hightower INT, Hightower was not able to adjust and Diggs made a great play. On the other one, Wentz attempted to throw it where only his guy could catch it, and Diggs made an amazing play again. Wentz is completely to blame on the both of these because he didn't need to force these passes. I also think Pederson needs to figure out that Wentz has been near lethal with passes under 20 yards in his career. Also, Scott was dicing up the defense and we didn't run the ball nearly enough. ...and where the hell is the RPO?!?!

Less than 2 seconds? No

Because you have what about 10-15 seconds presnap. Not good enough of an excuse. Vanderesch was at the line, you see it’s going to be 6 on 5 at least, you know who’s going to be open so you either adjust the play or quickly hit the guy. It’s there on the tape. Ward and reagor both spring open immediately on the snap. Are you asserting that pre snap wentz misdiagnosed the blitz and didn’t see it? Because I watched Goff get ran circles around because he couldn’t do one of the most important QB jobs which is to diagnose a blitz presnap and get the ball out.

And the wind thing being blamed on Hightower kills me lol

That ball was launched straight in the air lol. Wentz knows about the wind. Idk what’s worse the fact that wentz made a bad decision or this other assertion that wentz was somehow oblivious to the wind and was taken surprise by it.

My issue with a lot of this is praise on wentz falls really flat when criticism is absent in situations deserving of it. Then it comes off as blinders

[BDawk4Prez]

Lol what? Hurts?

I seriously doubt that. It’s franchise suicide for the next 3 years at least while we deal with the contract no one will take

Unless he gets traded today or tomorrow

A different Wentz.

The whole Hurts on the field thing needs to end too. There has been far more negative than positive trying to force him out there. Give him entire drives if anything.

[BDawk4Prez]

I think he meant a different version of Wentz, but I struggle to see any meaningful changes from his play between now and season's end.

I do because he SHOULD be working with the best version of this team and will have the entire bye week to do so.

While it may seem like Wentz is surrounded by excuse, I've still yet to see anyone give an example of a QB that does more with less or has done more in a similar type of situation.

[BDawk4Prez]

We have to stop saying he threw the ball to Hightower straight up in to the air. He didn't. Hightower doesn't track it well at all and the DB does. Judging by the way Hightower ran it looks like the ball just carried more towards the middle of the field. Saying he threw it up like a punt is a severe overstatement. Severe.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1323100420743458821?s=20

[last stand]

I do because he SHOULD be working with the best version of this team and will have the entire bye week to do so.

While it may seem like Wentz is surrounded by excuse, I've still yet to see anyone give an example of a QB that does more with less or has done more in a similar type of situation.

Well that depends on who you talk to. I mean burrow is a rookie and has one less loss than wentz and has played pretty damn well with a horrible offensive line in which he’s running for his life half the time

Everyone’s team is looked at as grass is greener on the other side

Russell Wilson has done this for years. Now he has a guy like metcalf

But before that he’s always had injured RBs, injured offensive lines and WRs that disappear after they leave the Seahawks.

And I know Wilson has had surrounding talent at times but so has wentz

No one is saying wentz doesn’t have it tougher. In fact it’s been the main reason I’ve argued both Goff and dak aren’t as good as him

However the YouTube breakdowns are out there of how often he has time, open guys and just flat out doesn’t see them or misses them. And yes he’s tough, a gamer and has a ton of talent. But what gets me is how much his mistakes are excused by so many. It’s one thing to say he has it harder. It’s another thing to say that his mistakes are always the fault of everything around him. Dude is approaching 20 turnovers quickly. And that’s with being relatively healthy the first 3 weeks and last night.