QBR and QBR leaders

[More-Than-Most]

Does these 2 combined help tell the best story of who is having the best season? Top 5 for the most part is pretty similar in both.

QBR leaders

Rodgers-85.5
Mahomes-84.9
Allen-82.5
Tanny- 82.3
Carr-80.9
Brees-80-8
FitzMagic-80.8
Wilson-80.7
Bake-76.7


QBrate

Wilson-119
rodgers-113
carr-113
tanny-112
mahomes-109
watson-108
herbert-108
brees-105
allen-105
brady-102

[basch152]

I feel QB rating is affected WAY too much by yards per pass.

I've seen QBs have less TDs, less yards, lower completion %, and more interceptions than another QB, but have a higher rating because they averaged like 1.2 more yards per pass. it's pretty silly

[Bullseyed]

Football Outsiders DVOA top 10 with (QBR) and [Rating]

01 Tannehill (4) [4]
02 Mahomes (2) [5]
03 Carr (6) [3]
04 Allen (3) [9]
05 Wilson (5) [1]
06 Watson (13) [6]
07 Herbert (12) [7]
08 Rodgers (1) [2]
09 Brady (20) [10]
10 Brees (8) [8]


DVOA is probably the best to go by, since QBR and Rating don't really adjust well for strength of opponent. QBs that do well against bad teams can show a high QBR or Rating.

[More-Than-Most]

Football Outsiders DVOA top 10 with (QBR) and [Rating]

01 Tannehill (4) [4]
02 Mahomes (2) [5]
03 Carr (6) [3]
04 Allen (3) [9]
05 Wilson (5) [1]
06 Watson (13) [6]
07 Herbert (12) [7]
08 Rodgers (1) [2]
09 Brady (20) [10]
10 Brees (8) [8]


DVOA is probably the best to go by, since QBR and Rating don't really adjust well for strength of opponent. QBs that do well against bad teams can show a high QBR or Rating.

so carr is top 3 in 2 of the stats and top 5 in all 3....................................... what a ****ing bum who is a dink and dunker but has a ypa of 8.3

carr and stafford are the 2 most underrated QBs in the nfl

[QB_Eagles]

DVOA is probably the best to go by, since QBR and Rating don't really adjust well for strength of opponent.

Maybe read: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/qb/2020

[manbearchef]

I feel QB rating is affected WAY too much by yards per pass.

I've seen QBs have less TDs, less yards, lower completion %, and more interceptions than another QB, but have a higher rating because they averaged like 1.2 more yards per pass. it's pretty silly

That and comp%. Certain QB play styles can play like **** and still never dip below an 85 passer rating because of easy short passes that their playmakers can flip into gains that boost YPA.

[crewfan13]

Football Outsiders DVOA top 10 with (QBR) and [Rating]

01 Tannehill (4) [4]
02 Mahomes (2) [5]
03 Carr (6) [3]
04 Allen (3) [9]
05 Wilson (5) [1]
06 Watson (13) [6]
07 Herbert (12) [7]
08 Rodgers (1) [2]
09 Brady (20) [10]
10 Brees (8) [8]


DVOA is probably the best to go by, since QBR and Rating don't really adjust well for strength of opponent. QBs that do well against bad teams can show a high QBR or Rating.

Not saying qbr or rating are better but I'm not a huge fan of dvoa for individual players. From a team perspective, I think it's a super valuable tool. But for individuals, they dont really make any attempt to divy out "credit" for an individual player. That is one thing I like about QBR, but it's far from perfect.

Individual DVOA, espeically for QBs, doesnt credit an OL for blocking for 8 seconds or ding an OL that instantly allows a guy through. Likewise, phenomenal wr's or wr's with great YAC skills "credit" the QB in DVOA quite a bit too.

I dont think it's useless, and the schedule adjustments is a nice addition as an input, but I definitely don't think it should be used individually alone as gospel. Using all 3 plus just the eye test is probably the best way. But we are all obsessed with ranking things that we think we need a stat to definitively tell us who's 1, 2, 3 and so on.

[Bullseyed]

Individual DVOA, espeically for QBs, doesnt credit an OL

Maybe read: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

[manbearchef]

so carr is top 3 in 2 of the stats and top 5 in all 3....................................... what a ****ing bum who is a dink and dunker but has a ypa of 8.3

carr and stafford are the 2 most underrated QBs in the nfl

YPA doesn't tell you anything about how far a QB is throwing, YAC can make a dink and dunker have a high YPA. But Stafford is top 10 in IAY (intended air yards per pass).

[More-Than-Most]

YPA doesn't tell you anything about how far a QB is throwing, YAC can make a dink and dunker have a high YPA. But Stafford is top 10 in IAY (intended air yards per pass).

give me the guy in the top 5 in all 3 of those stats with the ypa over 8.

[More-Than-Most]

YPA doesn't tell you anything about how far a QB is throwing, YAC can make a dink and dunker have a high YPA. But Stafford is top 10 in IAY (intended air yards per pass).

keep sticking with your eye test.... carr is right next to mahomes in front of guys like brees/ben on this list while cousins is top 2

what a great but stupid stat... again give me the smart QB who understands the talent in trusting his team and making the smart play

[manbearchef]

keep sticking with your eye test

I will, and I've said Stafford was underrated for years, he just doesn't win big games. It's not his fault he got drafted by such an inept franchise though.

[crewfan13]

Maybe read: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

Did you read? Read the 2nd paragraph in limitations. It's basically says exactly what I'm saying, only in reference to RB. They specifically say, for example, 2014 Marshawn Lynch DVOA measures 2014 Marshawn Lynch, behind the 2014 Seahawks OL with 2014 Russ at qb in 2014 Bevel's system. And the 2nd paragraph beyond that talks about how they can't seperate WR from QB but they specifically say it's very clear in their regression analysis that both play a big part in completing a pass, but it's nearly impossible with just play by play data to mathematically decipher how much to attribute to who.

And that's exactly the flaw with individual DVOA. And I think alot of stats to an extent sort of miss alot of the contextual stuff. Like throwing a few yards short of the marker on 3rd down is probably not a great idea. However, throwing it short of the marker to a tightly covered TE with no RAC skills is alot dumber than throwing a WR screen to the edge where you have blockers to say Tyreke Hill.

And that's some of the stuff that the stats miss out on. We've gotten great at calculating stuff like seperation and expected completion percentages and all of that stuff, but the contextual stuff is still missing. But DVOA in particular really peels out any sort of teammate context. They do a solid job of providing opponent context, but teammate context is super important.

[Bullseyed]

Did you read? Read the 2nd paragraph in limitations. It's basically says exactly what I'm saying, only in reference to RB.

There isn't a section labeled limitations. The paragraph you're referring to basically says "a good player can have a bad coach and therefore show up as bad, we can only measure their play."

They could call it the "Adam Gase rule".

[manbearchef]

Did you read? Read the 2nd paragraph in limitations. It's basically says exactly what I'm saying, only in reference to RB. They specifically say, for example, 2014 Marshawn Lynch DVOA measures 2014 Marshawn Lynch, behind the 2014 Seahawks OL with 2014 Russ at qb in 2014 Bevel's system. And the 2nd paragraph beyond that talks about how they can't seperate WR from QB but they specifically say it's very clear in their regression analysis that both play a big part in completing a pass, but it's nearly impossible with just play by play data to mathematically decipher how much to attribute to who.

And that's exactly the flaw with individual DVOA. And I think alot of stats to an extent sort of miss alot of the contextual stuff. Like throwing a few yards short of the marker on 3rd down is probably not a great idea. However, throwing it short of the marker to a tightly covered TE with no RAC skills is alot dumber than throwing a WR screen to the edge where you have blockers to say Tyreke Hill.

And that's some of the stuff that the stats miss out on. We've gotten great at calculating stuff like seperation and expected completion percentages and all of that stuff, but the contextual stuff is still missing. But DVOA in particular really peels out any sort of teammate context. They do a solid job of providing opponent context, but teammate context is super important.

It's almost like you have to watch the players rather than let a calculator tell you what's good/bad.