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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Brady hasn't had this kind of talent since possibly 2007. The only other comparable offense he's had is probably 2011 when they had Gronk/Welker/Branch/Edelman/Hernandez accounting for 4750 receiving yards and almost 30 TDs.
    What else happened to Brady in 2007 and 2011... hmm.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Peyton Manning?


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    I don't think its even close imo.

    Manning had high picks but he was a big reason for the players success, and none of them ever did anything outside of Indy(because their entire careers were in indy)

    Yes they invested high picks.

    But I still think Manning made them, even Marvin Harrison. I think Peyton was that special.


    He never got Randy Moss after he developed, Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Gronk, Corey Dillon (ok he did have Edge who had a better overall career for sure), I just think Brady was more of a guy that fit a system and excelled where Peyton WAS the system. He was the reason it excelled.

    I know these opinions are going to be looked down upon and I embrace that [emoji2]

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    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  3. #18
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    Would be shocked if AB lasts the entire season. 3.5 weeks seems to be a realistic over/under number.


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    has there ever been a QB who has been gifted more talent around him his entire career?
    Probably one of the dumbest comments made by this poster (which really says a lot)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I don't think its even close imo.

    Manning had high picks but he was a big reason for the players success, and none of them ever did anything outside of Indy(because their entire careers were in indy)

    Yes they invested high picks.

    But I still think Manning made them, even Marvin Harrison. I think Peyton was that special.


    He never got Randy Moss after he developed, Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Gronk, Corey Dillon (ok he did have Edge who had a better overall career for sure), I just think Brady was more of a guy that fit a system and excelled where Peyton WAS the system. He was the reason it excelled.

    I know these opinions are going to be looked down upon and I embrace that [emoji2]

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Brady basically had Gronk that’s it. Brown for like 2 ganes. I don’t even remember Gordon on the Pats. Dillons best years were in Cinci. Moss for like 3 seasons.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Edge, Thomas, and Sanders (I’ll even throw in Adai or however you spell it) and he normally has pretty top end OL. Those are a lot better when you add the talent and the years together compared to what Brady had.

    I definitely think Peyton made some players as well too though like his TEs m, Garçon, Stokely, Collie, etc.

    Brady had excellent coaching with a normally good defense and oline. Outside of Gronk and then a few seasons here and there with the aforementioned players, Brady was trotting out there with Amendolas, Edelman, and Welkers. While good, if you’re saying Peyton made Harrison (lol) then Brady definitely made these guys.

    I still think Manning is elite but comparing talent, I think Manning had more than Brady.

    I’ll say Kurt Warner is another who had more talent than Brady through their careers. Matt Ryan too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #21
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    I just think Brady was more of a guy that fit a system and excelled where Peyton WAS the system.

    Please, not this again.
    Let me guess, Manning was also the Greatest Regular Season QB Ever.

  7. #22
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    • Drove 100 down McKnight Road in Pittsburgh, which has a 45 MPH speed limit

    • Trashed a condo and threw furniture out a window 14th floor window, which almost hit some people, notably a child

    • Killed a home aquarium full of piranhas and refused to pay the man who installed the tank

    • Refused to play week 17 for the Steelers

    • Dyed his mustache blonde

    • Refused to pay a chef because he thought he threatened him by placing a fish head in the freezer (the fish head was saved to make a soup)

    • Farted on a doctor

    • Demanded a trade from the Steelers

    • Became "Mr. Big Chest"

    • Threw a fit over Juju winning team MVP and trashed him on social media

    • (Allegedly) nixed a trade that would've sent him to the Bills

    • Showed up to Raiders training camp in a hot air balloon

    • Held out and refused to show up to training camp because the NFL would not approve his helmet because it was too old for their safety standards

    • Froze his feet

    • Tried to paint over his old helmet, hoping no one would notice I guess

    • Acquired a newer version of the same model of helmet, which the NFL refused to let him use

    • Picked out a new helmet and finally showed up to the Raiders

    • Got fined by the Raiders for not attending camp

    • Tweeted the fines

    • Tried to fight Mike Mayock, called him a cracker, had to be held back by Vontaze Burfict, then punted a football down the practice field and said "fine me for that"

    • Got fined for that

    • Released a video where he used audio of Jon Gruden, who didn't know he was being recorded, which is illegal in California (full disclosure, Gruden has said he gave permission, but the generally accepted theory is that he said that in the hope that it would help get him to show up to the facility and not alienate him)

    • Demanded a release from the Raiders

    • Was released

    • "GRANDMA I’M FREEEEEE! FLY LIKE A FREEEEE!"

    • Made a lot of crazy tweets saying stuff like 'Devil is a lie', a proverb about burning down a village... he made a lot of crazy tweets around this time is the point here

    • Liked a tweet about Mayock getting raped in the ***

    • Signed with the Patriots

    • Moved in with Tom Brady

    • The sexual assault allegations came out (the one where he's getting sued)

    • The sexual harassment allegations came out (the one where he's not getting sued)

    • Threatened the woman not suing him in a group text that included his lawyer and had a picture of her kids in the text

    • Got released by the Patriots after one week

    • Went off on a tweet storm and said a lot of crazy **** about a lot of people, and was supportive of people sending threats to the writer of the article detailing the sexual harassment allegations

    • Said he was done with the NFL

    • Went back to college via online classes

    • Tried to outsource his homework to Twitter

    • Wants to come back to the NFL

    • Filed several grievances to try and get more than $40 million from the Raider's and Patriots

    • Was ordered to show up for a deposition regarding trashing the condo

    • Was accused of "reprehensible behavior" during the deposition (which is it's own insane thread, btw), which included, but was not limited too:

    1. ⁠"Arrived nearly 30 minutes late to the deposition."
    2. ⁠“[C]hanted, over and over, as if a mantra, a narrative of his own warped concept of the proceeding”.
    3. ⁠“Acting as if he was above the rule of law, [Brown] proceeded to make a mockery of the deposition process. [Brown’s] antics were so unreasonable that barely twenty [20] minutes into the deposition, his counsel asked for a break [so] he could speak with [Brown] about his demeanor.
    4. ⁠“After approximately 20-30 minutes, [Brown] required another break. When the deposition resumed [Brown] increased his level of obstructive behavior. At one point, [Brown] refused to answer any questions, instead saying “next question” no less than 10 times.”
    5. ⁠“Soon thereafter, [Brown] started announcing a countdown, starting at ‘five (5) minutes,’ and counting down the minutes thereafter. Before noon [Brown] left the conference room.”

    • Said that the Patriots have to pay him anyway, so they might as well let him play

    • Tweeted a couple of bizarre tweets about the Raiders using him for HBO ratings and the Patriots trying to steal his stuff and kept using this weird chicken based metaphor

    • Tried out for the Saints and brought an entourage and film crew to shoot a music video with him when specifically told not to do that

    • Called out Robert Kraft for his rub and tug massage session in Florida

    • Starting training for a boxing match with Logan Paul

    • Tweeted "No more white woman 2020"

    • The attorney representing him in the suit involving the condo quit

    • Used a bunch of slurs and profane language towards cops in an Instagram video he posted

    • A police youth football league cut ties with him and returned a donation after the release of the video saying there was a "irreparable rift" between the department and AB

    • Threw a bag of gummy candy dicks at the cops in a video he posted

    • Got dropped by his agent

    • Was involved in a disputed with movers at his home where he allegedly threw rocks at the movers and moving vans. He is currently being investigated for battery by the police.

    • His trainer was arrested and he is still a suspect in the battery case.

    • Warrant issued for the arrest of AB.

    • AB turns himself in to Broward Country Jail wearing this suit

    • Rumors spread about AB signing with Tampa or Seattle

    • AB announces his retirement (for what I believe is the third time, it's hard to find a good record of the rest of them)

    • Two days later AB wants to play again and is asking for the league to wrap up it's investigation

    • Joins TB12 in Tampa bay

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Brady basically had Gronk that’s it. Brown for like 2 ganes. I don’t even remember Gordon on the Pats. Dillons best years were in Cinci. Moss for like 3 seasons.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Edge, Thomas, and Sanders (I’ll even throw in Adai or however you spell it) and he normally has pretty top end OL. Those are a lot better when you add the talent and the years together compared to what Brady had.

    I definitely think Peyton made some players as well too though like his TEs m, Garçon, Stokely, Collie, etc.

    Brady had excellent coaching with a normally good defense and oline. Outside of Gronk and then a few seasons here and there with the aforementioned players, Brady was trotting out there with Amendolas, Edelman, and Welkers. While good, if you’re saying Peyton made Harrison (lol) then Brady definitely made these guys.

    I still think Manning is elite but comparing talent, I think Manning had more than Brady.

    I’ll say Kurt Warner is another who had more talent than Brady through their careers. Matt Ryan too.


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    Brady's teams had far more overall talent... Especially defensively. Not to mention that his head coach was FAR better than anything Manning ever had.

    If we're talking about overall talent and not just skill players, Brady has easily had the most around him for his entire career.

  9. #24
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    FA WR Antonio Brown & The Tampa Bay Buccaneers reach an agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    has there ever been a QB who has been gifted more talent around him his entire career?
    Sorry but what star FAs have flocked to NE over the past 20 years?

    It took like two months but Brady officially calling the shots over Arians at this point. Ariana has gone on record saying there was no chance the Bucs would sign AB.

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    Last edited by PAOboston; 10-24-2020 at 10:30 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Brady's teams had far more overall talent... Especially defensively. Not to mention that his head coach was FAR better than anything Manning ever had.

    If we're talking about overall talent and not just skill players, Brady has easily had the most around him for his entire career.
    Manning legit played for a HOF coach for a good chunk of his career.


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  11. #26
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    Bethlehem
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    FA WR Antonio Brown & The Tampa Bay Buccaneers reach an agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Brady's teams had far more overall talent... Especially defensively. Not to mention that his head coach was FAR better than anything Manning ever had.

    If we're talking about overall talent and not just skill players, Brady has easily had the most around him for his entire career.
    Talking strictly offense since I figured the addition of AB fit the context of “no QB has had more talent”

    Colts had pretty ****** defenses throughout Manning’s time there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  12. #27
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    Aug 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Brady basically had Gronk that’s it. Brown for like 2 ganes. I don’t even remember Gordon on the Pats. Dillons best years were in Cinci. Moss for like 3 seasons.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Edge, Thomas, and Sanders (I’ll even throw in Adai or however you spell it) and he normally has pretty top end OL. Those are a lot better when you add the talent and the years together compared to what Brady had.

    I definitely think Peyton made some players as well too though like his TEs m, Garçon, Stokely, Collie, etc.

    Brady had excellent coaching with a normally good defense and oline. Outside of Gronk and then a few seasons here and there with the aforementioned players, Brady was trotting out there with Amendolas, Edelman, and Welkers. While good, if you’re saying Peyton made Harrison (lol) then Brady definitely made these guys.

    I still think Manning is elite but comparing talent, I think Manning had more than Brady.

    I’ll say Kurt Warner is another who had more talent than Brady through their careers. Matt Ryan too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That’s the flaw with evaluating a QB by surrounding talent. Manning was always going to be surrounded by talent because he elevated them.
    Do you think Denver was loaded before he got there? He then proceeded to break every passing record imaginable at the time.

  13. #28
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    Dec 2008
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    236
    Quote Originally Posted by SF8 View Post
    • Drove 100 down McKnight Road in Pittsburgh, which has a 45 MPH speed limit

    • Trashed a condo and threw furniture out a window 14th floor window, which almost hit some people, notably a child

    • Killed a home aquarium full of piranhas and refused to pay the man who installed the tank

    • Refused to play week 17 for the Steelers

    • Dyed his mustache blonde

    • Refused to pay a chef because he thought he threatened him by placing a fish head in the freezer (the fish head was saved to make a soup)

    • Farted on a doctor

    • Demanded a trade from the Steelers

    • Became "Mr. Big Chest"

    • Threw a fit over Juju winning team MVP and trashed him on social media

    • (Allegedly) nixed a trade that would've sent him to the Bills

    • Showed up to Raiders training camp in a hot air balloon

    • Held out and refused to show up to training camp because the NFL would not approve his helmet because it was too old for their safety standards

    • Froze his feet

    • Tried to paint over his old helmet, hoping no one would notice I guess

    • Acquired a newer version of the same model of helmet, which the NFL refused to let him use

    • Picked out a new helmet and finally showed up to the Raiders

    • Got fined by the Raiders for not attending camp

    • Tweeted the fines

    • Tried to fight Mike Mayock, called him a cracker, had to be held back by Vontaze Burfict, then punted a football down the practice field and said "fine me for that"

    • Got fined for that

    • Released a video where he used audio of Jon Gruden, who didn't know he was being recorded, which is illegal in California (full disclosure, Gruden has said he gave permission, but the generally accepted theory is that he said that in the hope that it would help get him to show up to the facility and not alienate him)

    • Demanded a release from the Raiders

    • Was released

    • "GRANDMA I’M FREEEEEE! FLY LIKE A FREEEEE!"

    • Made a lot of crazy tweets saying stuff like 'Devil is a lie', a proverb about burning down a village... he made a lot of crazy tweets around this time is the point here

    • Liked a tweet about Mayock getting raped in the ***

    • Signed with the Patriots

    • Moved in with Tom Brady

    • The sexual assault allegations came out (the one where he's getting sued)

    • The sexual harassment allegations came out (the one where he's not getting sued)

    • Threatened the woman not suing him in a group text that included his lawyer and had a picture of her kids in the text

    • Got released by the Patriots after one week

    • Went off on a tweet storm and said a lot of crazy **** about a lot of people, and was supportive of people sending threats to the writer of the article detailing the sexual harassment allegations

    • Said he was done with the NFL

    • Went back to college via online classes

    • Tried to outsource his homework to Twitter

    • Wants to come back to the NFL

    • Filed several grievances to try and get more than $40 million from the Raider's and Patriots

    • Was ordered to show up for a deposition regarding trashing the condo

    • Was accused of "reprehensible behavior" during the deposition (which is it's own insane thread, btw), which included, but was not limited too:

    1. ⁠"Arrived nearly 30 minutes late to the deposition."
    2. ⁠“[C]hanted, over and over, as if a mantra, a narrative of his own warped concept of the proceeding”.
    3. ⁠“Acting as if he was above the rule of law, [Brown] proceeded to make a mockery of the deposition process. [Brown’s] antics were so unreasonable that barely twenty [20] minutes into the deposition, his counsel asked for a break [so] he could speak with [Brown] about his demeanor.
    4. ⁠“After approximately 20-30 minutes, [Brown] required another break. When the deposition resumed [Brown] increased his level of obstructive behavior. At one point, [Brown] refused to answer any questions, instead saying “next question” no less than 10 times.”
    5. ⁠“Soon thereafter, [Brown] started announcing a countdown, starting at ‘five (5) minutes,’ and counting down the minutes thereafter. Before noon [Brown] left the conference room.”

    • Said that the Patriots have to pay him anyway, so they might as well let him play

    • Tweeted a couple of bizarre tweets about the Raiders using him for HBO ratings and the Patriots trying to steal his stuff and kept using this weird chicken based metaphor

    • Tried out for the Saints and brought an entourage and film crew to shoot a music video with him when specifically told not to do that

    • Called out Robert Kraft for his rub and tug massage session in Florida

    • Starting training for a boxing match with Logan Paul

    • Tweeted "No more white woman 2020"

    • The attorney representing him in the suit involving the condo quit

    • Used a bunch of slurs and profane language towards cops in an Instagram video he posted

    • A police youth football league cut ties with him and returned a donation after the release of the video saying there was a "irreparable rift" between the department and AB

    • Threw a bag of gummy candy dicks at the cops in a video he posted

    • Got dropped by his agent

    • Was involved in a disputed with movers at his home where he allegedly threw rocks at the movers and moving vans. He is currently being investigated for battery by the police.

    • His trainer was arrested and he is still a suspect in the battery case.

    • Warrant issued for the arrest of AB.

    • AB turns himself in to Broward Country Jail wearing this suit

    • Rumors spread about AB signing with Tampa or Seattle

    • AB announces his retirement (for what I believe is the third time, it's hard to find a good record of the rest of them)

    • Two days later AB wants to play again and is asking for the league to wrap up it's investigation

    • Joins TB12 in Tampa bay
    He should never be let back in the league for dying his mustache blonde

  14. #29
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    Bethlehem
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    That’s the flaw with evaluating a QB by surrounding talent. Manning was always going to be surrounded by talent because he elevated them.
    Do you think Denver was loaded before he got there? He then proceeded to break every passing record imaginable at the time.
    Not loaded but DT and Sanders were excellent wide outs.

    Again I still think Manning is elite but I still think he had better talent than Brady in their careers which was MTMs point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #30
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    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    34,375
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Talking strictly offense since I figured the addition of AB fit the context of “no QB has had more talent”

    Colts had pretty ****** defenses throughout Manning’s time there.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This honestly gets overstated some. They had some awful defenses for sure, but they also had some great ones. The narrative really got set early from 01-04: Manning had terrible defenses that he carried and Brady coasted. It wasn't true for much of Brady's career or even Manning's for that matter.

    From 05-09 the Colts ranked top 10 in points against every year except 06 when Sanders was hurt (and then they proceeded to play back at that level when he came back for playoffs). Peyton also had great defenses in Denver obviously.

    Brady obviously was the benefit of terrific defenses early in his career and again late, but those middle years were ****ing terrible. They went to the Super Bowl with Edelman at CB and Slater playing lots of safety. Those 09-2013 defenses were baaaaaaad and they were still racking up AFC Champ Game appearances.

    Realistically, the defense disparity isn't what people think. Each of them spent roughly half their careers with great defenses and winning multiple Super Bowls. And the other half with terrible defenses they were covering for to make deep playoff runs. But the narrative got drawn early that there was a disparity and it never updated for things as they changed.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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