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  1. #1
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    Jul 2008
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    The Ryan Tannehill Paradox

    So I spent some time thinking about this as I had my coffee:

    How good is Ryan Tannehill actually?

    In Miami he looked rather average. Yes he never had the best offense around him but he had good players on his line, had Jarvis Landry for a while, had an okay run game. Yet none of that beared any weight when it came to success.

    MIA: 62.8%passer, 232.2 yards per game, 7.0 y/a, 6.7 ay/a, 1.5td:1int ratio, 87 Rating

    Then he goes to Tennessee and things change. The line is better. The WR's are about the same as his best years in Miami. The running back situation is much better. And suddenly he looks like a much better QB.

    TEN: 70.2%passer, 241.8 yards per game, 9.0 y/a, 9.7 ay/a, 4td:1int ratio, 116 rating

    So the question I got:
    Is Ryan Tannehill actually good? Was he held back in Miami and we never saw it? Or is Tannehill the beneficiary of a system? A similar system that's been taken to GB and helped Rodgers immensely. How much are you buying into the success being Tannehill that good or Tennessee just being the right situation to help him look better?

  2. #2
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    All of it.

    I’m loving this story actually. How often do we hear about “if so and so was drafted by another team, he wouldn’t have failed?” We’re kind of seeing that happen.

    Tannehil showed flashes in Miami of his potential but was wildly inconsistent and had the injury bug. Some would say he was a bust so clearing him out was good, however, we’re seeing a case of his talents flourishing on a much better team.

    I think he’s a good QB and is now out into a great position.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  3. #3
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    I think it's both. He had flashes in Miami, but they wanted him to be the focal point and carry the offense, which didn't work very well. Now he's got Henry, a great OL, and some reliable targets along with facing loaded boxes on play action passes. Hes also making some crazy good throws at times.

  4. #4
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    Jun 2011
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    Some QBs go on streaks for a game or two. Some QBs go on streaks for a season or two and then disappear.

    Late this year Tannehill could suddenly slump. Or he could keep doing well. Not enough time yet to tell.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  5. #5
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    I think system qb has such a negative connotation, but it's true in so many cases. I truly think there's only a handful of guys who are truly system agnostic. I think it's probably Rodgers, Wilson and mahomes that truly don't matter what system they are in. That's not saying some systems aren't better for them than others, but those 3 could succeed in almost any system, with the only exception being Rodgers at his age couldn't succeed in a Lamar Jackson style running system, but that's such a unique case.

    But virtually everyone else has major strengths and weaknesses that need a system to address. And that's not saying those guys cant be as good as others in the right system. It just takes finding a coach who unlocks that system foe their qb.

    That's what tannehill feels like. This system is great for him. He's shown he throws it downfield pretty well and plays well when hes clean. He also seems like a confidence player, so by letting him do the things he does well, his confidence just builds. It's not too dissimilar to say a Jared Goff in LA. He can be great when the offense is humming, but when it isn't and he's asked to do traditional drop backs without a PA threat and hes given exotic schemes to read, he can struggle.

  6. #6
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    He's definitely more than a system QB. Maybe it's because I've always been a Tannehill fan, or also because for several years I have watched Mariota struggle to adapt to the system or being able to run it at least close to the same level that Ryan has been. But he's a damn solid QB, trusted into a good system that allows him to be effective, true, but if you haven't followed the Titans up until the QB change, it might also be hard to see that the system benefited plenty as well from his play.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei00 View Post
    He's definitely more than a system QB. Maybe it's because I've always been a Tannehill fan, or also because for several years I have watched Mariota struggle to adapt to the system or being able to run it at least close to the same level that Ryan has been. But he's a damn solid QB, trusted into a good system that allows him to be effective, true, but if you haven't followed the Titans up until the QB change, it might also be hard to see that the system benefited plenty as well from his play.
    Tannehill isn't a system QB because Mariota couldn't run the system they tried to put in for the Titans? What?

    I'm not saying what Tannehill is or isn't but your line of "reasoning" here just makes no sense.

    I do generally agree with Crewfan13's prior comment though. If the QB differs so much from team to team and needs a certain type of offense to succeed, they can be considered a system QB. Unclear if Tannehill is there and needs a team like the Titans to succeed, or if he's just doing better because "not Gase" is his coach.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  8. #8
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Tannehill isn't a system QB because Mariota couldn't run the system they tried to put in for the Titans? What?

    I'm not saying what Tannehill is or isn't but your line of "reasoning" here just makes no sense.

    I do generally agree with Crewfan13's prior comment though. If the QB differs so much from team to team and needs a certain type of offense to succeed, they can be considered a system QB. Unclear if Tannehill is there and needs a team like the Titans to succeed, or if he's just doing better because "not Gase" is his coach.
    It does make sense if you kept up with the Titans. The system isn't or wasn't as good before he came. He inherited a 2-4 team, took them to the AFC Championship game while winning CPOY and currently has them undefeated while looking like a pretty strong MVP candidate (maybe stronger if he wasn't playing in a small market). I don't know that many system QBs that could have that type of impact.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei00 View Post
    It does make sense if you kept up with the Titans.
    Not how logic works.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  10. #10
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    Jan 2007
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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  11. #11
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    Aug 2020
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    504
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    So I spent some time thinking about this as I had my coffee:

    How good is Ryan Tannehill actually?

    In Miami he looked rather average. Yes he never had the best offense around him but he had good players on his line, had Jarvis Landry for a while, had an okay run game. Yet none of that beared any weight when it came to success.

    MIA: 62.8%passer, 232.2 yards per game, 7.0 y/a, 6.7 ay/a, 1.5td:1int ratio, 87 Rating

    Then he goes to Tennessee and things change. The line is better. The WR's are about the same as his best years in Miami. The running back situation is much better. And suddenly he looks like a much better QB.

    TEN: 70.2%passer, 241.8 yards per game, 9.0 y/a, 9.7 ay/a, 4td:1int ratio, 116 rating

    So the question I got:
    Is Ryan Tannehill actually good? Was he held back in Miami and we never saw it? Or is Tannehill the beneficiary of a system? A similar system that's been taken to GB and helped Rodgers immensely. How much are you buying into the success being Tannehill that good or Tennessee just being the right situation to help him look better?
    Tannehill does not fall under the system QB tag from observing his play during his last season in Miami before he was shipped out by the new regime. He had time to make good reads and executing plays under pressure against top defenses as oppose to crumbling under pressure in the past which does help finally having an island in Tunsil protecting his blind side. But they basically failed as a team due to the game scripts and calls run by Gase that few players could raley behind among weaknesses in other areas despite Tannehill showing he has the skills to win under center.

    Flores doesn't seem like a good QB evaluator by not keeping Tannehill since he was still under contract but shipped him off for a 7th round pick while eating most of his contract like he was a cancer to the team and then traded for fragile Rosen instead. Then he drafted a QB recovering from a serious injury when Herbert was still available. Now he made Fitz cry by replacing him as a starter [emoji24]

  12. #12
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    Aug 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    All of it.

    I’m loving this story actually. How often do we hear about “if so and so was drafted by another team, he wouldn’t have failed?” We’re kind of seeing that happen.

    Tannehil showed flashes in Miami of his potential but was wildly inconsistent and had the injury bug. Some would say he was a bust so clearing him out was good, however, we’re seeing a case of his talents flourishing on a much better team.

    I think he’s a good QB and is now out into a great position.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes and was part of the miracle ending to beat the Patriots and made Flores look bad with his personnel move on that play.
    https://youtu.be/oy9GzGmcoIk
    Last edited by cattusmaru; 10-24-2020 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #13
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Not how logic works.
    How does it work, this logic thing?

  14. #14
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei00 View Post
    How does it work, this logic thing?
    Switching your comment to a different team...

    Favre must be a system QB, because Rodgers came in and played better in GB.



    Tannehill being better than Mariota has nothing to do with whether or not either is a system QB.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  15. #15
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    Nov 2013
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    No, but putting up MVP numbers after winning the starting spot mid-season, playing for a rookie OC, with an OL that looked infinitely worse before he got on the field, a RB that was averaging just under 70 yards a game and 3.68 Y/run compared to 125 yards per game and 5.92 Y/run when he got on the field, and a WR corps whose star was a rookie, and then continuing to put up MVP-like numbers in a post-and-during-pandemic season, in which he saw his starting RT leave and his starting LT go down for the season, while playing with a constantly depleted WR corps, would seem to back up my statement.

    Me drawing conclusions after watching every game before and after he became the starter last year and most of the games this year, or you drawing conclusions from comparing some stats to when he was in Miami. Who's using logic and who's not?

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