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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I think we nailed the top 5. 6-9 are debatable, and I'm not sure I would have put those guys there in that specific order, but I'm not mad at any of those picks.
    I agree. I'm very happy with how the top 9 came out.

    10-12 are pretty much a train wreck. Moses is great, but there were so many better peak guys than him still on the board. I feel like he should have fallen in the 15-20 range, like he regular does in other all-time discussions.
    I just asked this to Ewing but I'm curious about your opinion. Should Bill Walton and Moses Malone have been in each others spots?

    Russell at 11 is the biggest reach on the board. Phenomenal career and rightly a top 10 guy in most all-time conversations, but in a peak conversation, he's a borderline top 25 guy at best.
    Who would you draft first: Bill Russell (#11) or Karl Malone (Not Ranked)?

    And Kawhi in the top 15 doesn't bother me a ton, but there were other guards/wings from this era who should have gone higher. I would have put him behind the guys who went from 13-16.

    13-23 overall feels solid to me. The order of those guys is debatable, but none of those picks feel shocking. The run on modern guards and wings was inevitable, and although Wade/Kobe was a coin flip for me, I kind of agree with the order from 13-16. And I have no problem with the order of the rest of the guys, including Dr. J, except for one pick...
    Yup.

    Ewing. He just didn't belong on this list, period. There were other guys who were far more dominant in their respective eras or had more postseason success than he did. Ewing just felt like "We don't know who to pick here, but here's two Knicks fans playing the nostalgia card, so he wins." Top 30-35? Maybe. Not top 25.
    It's entirely possible I'm being a ridiculous homer here but that vote came down to Harden or Ewing and my personal preference between those two is Ewing.

    The most obvious omissions for me would be Harden, Paul and maybe Giannis and Davis—hard to tell with them because they're still so young as even in a peak discussion, most of the guys on this list, you'd want to take the seasoned veteran versions of them, not the 25-year-old versions.
    That's going to be fun to re-visit in a year. Either one of Giannis or Davis could have a top 15ish season.


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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Hill and Hardaway? Seriously? Who on this list are peak Hill and Hardaway better than? They were great players with short peaks—I get it. But they're not even close top top 25 peak all-time guys. If we stretched this out to top 50, they'd probably get in.

    And Michael Ray Richardson? C'mon man. Dude had one 20+ PPG season his entire career, and he played for bad/mediocre Knicks and Nets teams.
    Was gonna say you're questioning Hill and Penny when he talked about Nique and MRR lol.

  3. #18
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    1. Most overrated are Moses Malone, Bill Walton and Patrick Ewing

    2. Most underrated is Kobe

    3. Biggest snubs are Karl Malone and Charles Barkley

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I was going to make a joke about the fact that Lebron was drafted after 2000, therefore NYK doesn't acknowledge his existence, but then I realized he had Durant in his top 10, which is super confusing. On what planet is Kevin Durant better than Lebron, peak or no peak?
    Do you understand the difference between peak and prime? It is obvious that you do not grasp what "peak" means.

  5. #20
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    PSD Top 25 GOAT Rankings Summary (Opinion Thread - Overrated/Underrated/Snubbed?)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    #1.) If KG is overrated because he is a #2 option on offense then how do you feel about Russell?

    #2.) Would you switch Bill Walton and Moses Malone?
    1) I don’t. He played in an era I can not contextualize. He is considered the most dominant defensive player ever by some some and was considered the best for a long time by many of his contemporaries. I will say the legend of his individual impact defensively and what KG brought in terms of defensive impact are very different.

    2) Maybe Moses is a tough rank. I think he probably deserves to be somewhere around where he is and Walton probably deserve to be slightly higher. I would suggest people watch a little prime Walton if they can. He was a an amazing basketball player. The guys instincts were off the charts on both ends. Just a brilliant player


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    1. Most overrated are Moses Malone, Bill Walton and Patrick Ewing

    2. Most underrated is Kobe

    3. Biggest snubs are Karl Malone and Charles Barkley
    Barkley is on the list.


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  7. #22
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    I know some of you are Coach Nick fans. I think KnickorBust has posted his videos a bunch of times. He thinks during his 2 season prime Bill Walton was the greatest center in the history of the game. sounds a little crazy but the guy was a really special. if he wasn't the most injuried player ever (reports say he had 37 surgeries) he would have been a true all time great. Some guys are bigger then there numbers and some guys are bigger when it matters I think Walton was both.
    Last edited by ewing; 10-17-2020 at 09:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Do you understand the difference between peak and prime? It is obvious that you do not grasp what "peak" means.
    No. I very much do. And it's obvious that you loathe Lebron James, and it clouds your judgment of any debate that involves him. It's cool, man. Just accept that you're a Lebron hater. I hate Karl Malone, it clouds my judgment of him and I openly admit that on a regular basis. No shame in admitting that you can't fairly judge a player's talents because of personal bias.


  9. #24
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    Id say Kobe should be where Kawhi is.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    No. I very much do. And it's obvious that you loathe Lebron James, and it clouds your judgment of any debate that involves him. It's cool, man. Just accept that you're a Lebron hater. I hate Karl Malone, it clouds my judgment of him and I openly admit that on a regular basis. No shame in admitting that you can't fairly judge a player's talents because of personal bias.
    The only NBA player I genuinely hated was Michael Jordan.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I know some of you are Coach Nick fans. I think KnickorBust has posted his videos a bunch of times. He thinks during his 2 season prime Bill Walton was the greatest center in the history of the game. sounds a little crazy but the guy was a really special. if he wasn't the most injuried player ever (reports say he had 37 surgeries) he would have been a true all time great. Some guys are bigger then there numbers and some guys are bigger when it matters I think Walton was both.
    I'd put him on the same level as David Robinson in terms of peak. More versatile offensively but not as good defensively.

    Overall I'd say they both have a claim for a top 15 spot in terms of peak.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    I feel like most of the seven-footers from yesteryear — Kareem, Wilt, Russell, etc. — are overrated. I'm not saying they're bad. But they clearly played against physically inferior, whiter, shorter competition. Look at this chart. The height and weight of NBA players has gone up over time, along with their physical conditioning.
    I think a guy like Kareem or Wilt could be better today with advancements in diet and exercise. But they'd still be going against a physically superior, deeper, more diverse talent pool. I don't think there's any way they're as good.
    This.

    According to your posted chart, in the Bill Walton era, an average power forward was 6'8 and weighed 220 lbs. Yet people here would take him over a 6'11 250lbs Anthony Davis who is also one of the best (if not the best) defender in the league, can shoot, can dribble, can post up. Just finished putting up 28/10/4 on 57% in the playoffs, 39% from three.

    If Charles Barkley is on the list, so should Anthony Davis. I don't understand the criteria. Davis is obviously a more talented all-around player (if we go by talent), has better advanced stats (if we go by stats), has a ring (if we go by rings). 2020 AD is better than any version of Barkley.

    More thoughts:

    1) All the 60's 70's stars are overrated

    2) If you need one win and you take Steph Curry, who is a non-factor on defence and a lesser version of himself during the playoffs, over Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, you smoking something good.

    3) Even though I don't like the player, CP3 deserves more love.

    4) Kawhi is obviously overrated as always.

    5) The top 3 is quite good.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanG View Post
    This.

    According to your posted chart, in the Bill Walton era, an average power forward was 6'8 and weighed 220 lbs. Yet people here would take him over a 6'11 250lbs Anthony Davis who is also one of the best (if not the best) defender in the league, can shoot, can dribble, can post up. Just finished putting up 28/10/4 on 57% in the playoffs, 39% from three.

    If Charles Barkley is on the list, so should Anthony Davis. I don't understand the criteria. Davis is obviously a more talented all-around player (if we go by talent), has better advanced stats (if we go by stats), has a ring (if we go by rings). 2020 AD is better than any version of Barkley.

    More thoughts:

    1) All the 60's 70's stars are overrated

    2) If you need one win and you take Steph Curry, who is a non-factor on defence and a lesser version of himself during the playoffs, over Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, you smoking something good.

    3) Even though I don't like the player, CP3 deserves more love.

    4) Kawhi is obviously overrated as always.

    5) The top 3 is quite good.
    According to the same charts the average PF in 2018 was 6’9 and 230 lbs. your post would make sense if AD was an average sized PF but he isn’t


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    I feel like most of the seven-footers from yesteryear — Kareem, Wilt, Russell, etc. — are overrated. I'm not saying they're bad. But they clearly played against physically inferior, whiter, shorter competition. Look at this chart. The height and weight of NBA players has gone up over time, along with their physical conditioning.
    I think a guy like Kareem or Wilt could be better today with advancements in diet and exercise. But they'd still be going against a physically superior, deeper, more diverse talent pool. I don't think there's any way they're as good.
    I'd have to see the data set. The nba measured players differently back in the days and didn't really keep up to date with growth. You can safely add an inch or 2 to most players. The weights vary but prolly more accurate than height. Kareem is a transitional bridge i often use to compare eras. Another is Robert Parish, so if parish has played against young shaq and prime Gilmore, and says gilmore was stronger then couldn't we say wilt was stronger than a younger shaq? Following that logic, a better, more skilled and conditioned athlete like Wilt couldn't do what Shaq did?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanG View Post
    This.

    According to your posted chart, in the Bill Walton era, an average power forward was 6'8 and weighed 220 lbs. Yet people here would take him over a 6'11 250lbs Anthony Davis who is also one of the best (if not the best) defender in the league, can shoot, can dribble, can post up. Just finished putting up 28/10/4 on 57% in the playoffs, 39% from three.

    If Charles Barkley is on the list, so should Anthony Davis. I don't understand the criteria. Davis is obviously a more talented all-around player (if we go by talent), has better advanced stats (if we go by stats), has a ring (if we go by rings). 2020 AD is better than any version of Barkley.

    More thoughts:

    1) All the 60's 70's stars are overrated

    2) If you need one win and you take Steph Curry, who is a non-factor on defence and a lesser version of himself during the playoffs, over Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, you smoking something good.

    3) Even though I don't like the player, CP3 deserves more love.

    4) Kawhi is obviously overrated as always.

    5) The top 3 is quite good.
    You're citing the height inflation numbers vs height deflation numbers (for the most part but it varied between personalities) for example, Bill Russell thought 6"10, 6"11 would have people perceive him as a goon. KG used to joke about being 6"12 because he didn't want to be stuck in a 7 footers role.

    Dwight was prolly the most egregious inflater, for years people considered him a 7 footer but It was obviously just wwe style gimmick marketing, when the nba started getting true heights, dude was 6"9. Same for hakeem tho, he was 610

    Anthony Davis is 6"9.75. Prolly 6"11 with shoes these days but old timers were playing on ****** flat converse shoes lol.

    Also got to check both eras by minutes played height wise and the standard deviation between all eras. That's a better picture but the rules, more than the talent is what makes it harder to compare athletes.

    Agreed on point 2, 3.
    Last edited by Chronz; 10-18-2020 at 11:16 AM.

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