PSD Top 25 GOAT Rankings Summary (Opinion Thread - Overrated/Underrated/Snubbed?)

[KnicksorBust]

In August I started making threads for the basketball forum to vote for who they thought were the best players in NBA History at their peak. If you had to win 1 game and could take the best version of any player in history who would you draft first to build a team around. I enjoyed the debates because it focused less on accolades/rings/all-star games and more on the talent of the players. These were the results:

#1.) Michael Jordan
#2.) LeBron James
#3.) Shaquille O'Neal
#4.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#5.) Wilt Chamberlain
#6.) Larry Bird
#7.) Hakeem Olajuwon
#8.) Magic Johnson
#9.) Tim Duncan
#10.) Moses Malone
#11.) Bill Russell
#12.) Kawhi Leonard
#13.) Kevin Durant
#14.) Stephen Curry
#15.) Dwyane Wade
#16.) Kobe Bryant
#17.) Dirk Nowitzki
#18.) Kevin Garnett
#19.) Bill Walton
#20.) Jerry West
#21.) Oscar Robertson
#22.) David Robinson
#23.) Charles Barkley
#24.) Patrick Ewing
#25.) Julius Erving

I am no fool. I know there were a LOT of disagreements about the rankings of these players and to be honest I'm really interested to hear from all of you one more time. A lot of you made tremendous arguments for and against some of these players and I would love to hear your opinions on the final results.

#1.) What player on the list do you think is the most overrated? Where should that player be ranked?

#2.) What player on the list do you think is the most underrated? Where should that player be ranked?

#3.) Name the 1 player that you think got snubbed the most by not making the top 25.

[ewing]

The most overrated is KG easy. He a number 2 option scoring and not much of a creator.

Most underrated is probably prime Walton.

I think J KIdd and Steve Nash deserves consideration along with the obvious Karl Malone and Chuck


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[mrblisterdundee]

I feel like most of the seven-footers from yesteryear — Kareem, Wilt, Russell, etc. — are overrated. I'm not saying they're bad. But they clearly played against physically inferior, whiter, shorter competition. Look at this chart. The height and weight of NBA players has gone up over time, along with their physical conditioning.
I think a guy like Kareem or Wilt could be better today with advancements in diet and exercise. But they'd still be going against a physically superior, deeper, more diverse talent pool. I don't think there's any way they're as good.

[Iggie]

1. Players 11-14

2. Not sure

3. CP3 TMac Kidd or Nash

[mightybosstone]

I think we nailed the top 5. 6-9 are debatable, and I'm not sure I would have put those guys there in that specific order, but I'm not mad at any of those picks.

10-12 are pretty much a train wreck. Moses is great, but there were so many better peak guys than him still on the board. I feel like he should have fallen in the 15-20 range, like he regular does in other all-time discussions. Russell at 11 is the biggest reach on the board. Phenomenal career and rightly a top 10 guy in most all-time conversations, but in a peak conversation, he's a borderline top 25 guy at best. And Kawhi in the top 15 doesn't bother me a ton, but there were other guards/wings from this era who should have gone higher. I would have put him behind the guys who went from 13-16.

13-23 overall feels solid to me. The order of those guys is debatable, but none of those picks feel shocking. The run on modern guards and wings was inevitable, and although Wade/Kobe was a coin flip for me, I kind of agree with the order from 13-16. And I have no problem with the order of the rest of the guys, including Dr. J, except for one pick...

Ewing. He just didn't belong on this list, period. There were other guys who were far more dominant in their respective eras or had more postseason success than he did. Ewing just felt like "We don't know who to pick here, but here's two Knicks fans playing the nostalgia card, so he wins." Top 30-35? Maybe. Not top 25.

The most obvious omissions for me would be Harden, Paul and maybe Giannis and Davis—hard to tell with them because they're still so young as even in a peak discussion, most of the guys on this list, you'd want to take the seasoned veteran versions of them, not the 25-year-old versions.

[mightybosstone]

The most overrated is KG easy. He a number 2 option scoring and not much of a creator.

Most underrated is probably prime Walton.

I think J KIdd and Steve Nash deserves consideration along with the obvious Karl Malone and Chuck


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So Walton is an underrated No. 1 with his 19 peak points per game, but KG is an overrated No. 2 despite putting up similar numbers on a championship team and being a 23-24 PPG guy on a playoff Minnesota team? Cool.

[NYKalltheway]

There's no Grant Hill.
There's no Tracy McGrady.
There's no Dominique Wilkins.
There's no Elgin Baylor.
There's no Penny Hardaway.
There wasn't even a mention for Michael Ray Richardson.


Half of the players are either too high or plain shouldn't be part of the top 25.

A few are underrated within the Top 25, but at least they're present.

The top 5 should be an affair between Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Hakeem Olajuwon, with guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tim Duncan and perhaps one of Grant Hill, David Robinson and Kevin Durant completing the top 10. It kinda gets debatable of course, and that's the idea of this, but the guys wtih the truly high peak were ignored just because their career didn't match it.

So yeah, just another PSD meritless popularity contest.
The idea of "peak" was wrong from the get go. It has been yet another "which superstar do you like the most" for the most part and then a classic discussion between only 2 players that 2 members chose to back as if everyone else ceased existing...

[ewing]

So Walton is an underrated No. 1 with his 19 peak points per game, but KG is an overrated No. 2 despite putting up similar numbers on a championship team and being a 23-24 PPG guy on a playoff Minnesota team? Cool.

Yep. Walton was the fulcrum of his teams offense and was the dominate defender KG gets credit for being. It’s a list based on PEAK not career or Walton wouldn’t be on it all. It might have only been 2 years but Walton was the best player in basketball for a time and carried his team to the promise land when he was. KG wasn’t and didn’t


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[Iggie]

There's no Grant Hill.
There's no Tracy McGrady.
There's no Dominique Wilkins.
There's no Elgin Baylor.
There's no Penny Hardaway.
There wasn't even a mention for Michael Ray Richardson.


Half of the players are either too high or plain shouldn't be part of the top 25.

A few are underrated within the Top 25, but at least they're present.

The top 5 should be an affair between Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Hakeem Olajuwon, with guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tim Duncan and perhaps one of Grant Hill, David Robinson and Kevin Durant completing the top 10. It kinda gets debatable of course, and that's the idea of this, but the guys wtih the truly high peak were ignored just because their career didn't match it.

So yeah, just another PSD meritless popularity contest.
The idea of "peak" was wrong from the get go. It has been yet another "which superstar do you like the most" for the most part and then a classic discussion between only 2 players that 2 members chose to back as if everyone else ceased existing...

Holy ****! Did LeBron never exist in your world?

[mightybosstone]

There's no Grant Hill.
There's no Tracy McGrady.
There's no Dominique Wilkins.
There's no Elgin Baylor.
There's no Penny Hardaway.
There wasn't even a mention for Michael Ray Richardson.


Half of the players are either too high or plain shouldn't be part of the top 25.

A few are underrated within the Top 25, but at least they're present.

The top 5 should be an affair between Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Hakeem Olajuwon, with guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tim Duncan and perhaps one of Grant Hill, David Robinson and Kevin Durant completing the top 10. It kinda gets debatable of course, and that's the idea of this, but the guys wtih the truly high peak were ignored just because their career didn't match it.

So yeah, just another PSD meritless popularity contest.
The idea of "peak" was wrong from the get go. It has been yet another "which superstar do you like the most" for the most part and then a classic discussion between only 2 players that 2 members chose to back as if everyone else ceased existing...

Hill and Hardaway? Seriously? Who on this list are peak Hill and Hardaway better than? They were great players with short peaks—I get it. But they're not even close top top 25 peak all-time guys. If we stretched this out to top 50, they'd probably get in.

And Michael Ray Richardson? C'mon man. Dude had one 20+ PPG season his entire career, and he played for bad/mediocre Knicks and Nets teams.

[mightybosstone]

Holy ****! Did LeBron never exist in your world?

I was going to make a joke about the fact that Lebron was drafted after 2000, therefore NYK doesn't acknowledge his existence, but then I realized he had Durant in his top 10, which is super confusing. On what planet is Kevin Durant better than Lebron, peak or no peak?

[Iggie]

I was going to make a joke about the fact that Lebron was drafted after 2000, therefore NYK doesn't acknowledge his existence, but then I realized he had Durant in his top 10, which is super confusing. On what planet is Kevin Durant better than Lebron, peak or no peak?

I’m hoping he just somehow forgot him lol that’s terrible.

[KnicksorBust]

The most overrated is KG easy. He a number 2 option scoring and not much of a creator.

Most underrated is probably prime Walton.

I think J KIdd and Steve Nash deserves consideration along with the obvious Karl Malone and Chuck


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#1.) If KG is overrated because he is a #2 option on offense then how do you feel about Russell?

#2.) Would you switch Bill Walton and Moses Malone?

[KnicksorBust]

I feel like most of the seven-footers from yesteryear — Kareem, Wilt, Russell, etc. — are overrated. I'm not saying they're bad. But they clearly played against physically inferior, whiter, shorter competition. Look at this chart. The height and weight of NBA players has gone up over time, along with their physical conditioning.
I think a guy like Kareem or Wilt could be better today with advancements in diet and exercise. But they'd still be going against a physically superior, deeper, more diverse talent pool. I don't think there's any way they're as good.

Wilt was a track star (4.6 seconds in a 40 yard dash) who could bench 500 pounds. What current NBA players are physically superior to him?

[KnicksorBust]

1. Players 11-14

2. Not sure

3. CP3 TMac Kidd or Nash

Who would you take off to put them on? Would you take all 4 of those guards over Harden?