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  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    I think the phrases imply different things. If you want to re-define what the things mean such that "handing us our ***" and "have won close games against us" then we can agree. It's a discussion forum.

    And of course that's an accurate statement. But it also has VERY little do with Nagy's Bears against the Packers. I would not be stunned at all if we split with them this year.
    I wouldnít either. Then nags would be 2-4 against the pack. Still not good and still would mean the pack have had the bears number in his tenure.

  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    I wouldnít either. Then nags would be 2-4 against the pack. Still not good and still would mean the pack have had the bears number in his tenure.
    And? It's more accurate to say he'd be 1-1 against them twice and 0-2 against them once.

    Who cares? If you believe that is "having someone's number" then I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. REQUIRING him to go 2-0 against Aaron Rodgers is such a ridiculously high bar that the Packers basically have everyone's number I guess.

  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Not sure whatís going on here but when a team consistently beats you more than you beat them, thatís having your number. Itís irrelevant if theyíre more vulnerable right now. That doesnít change he the fact theyíve had the bears number. This quite honestly, is common sense 101
    It's not. For a team to "have the others' number" would suggest that the reason a team beats the other is because of some reason other than just being more talented and better. In that situation, you're dealing with two equally talented/good teams and one of them just plays to the others' strengths and weaknesses better. That hasn't been the case of the Bears and Packers in the Rodgers era.

    I don't, for example, see the Patriots as having "had the Dolphins/Jets/Bills" number over the last 20 years. Those teams have all just been bad, and the Patriots have whooped them because they're much better and should win in most cases. It's the same thing. The Packers have just been obviously better. That's not true anymore, so they shouldn't be expected to win against the Bears because of the fact they were once better and more talented than the Bears. They're not now. This isn't that difficult.

  4. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Even more than the coach's record matters, a GM's record matters. At the end of the day, we've won lots of games with the teams Pace has put together. If we're winning because he found a good coach that elevates the not so great players he shows a tendency to draft/sign on occasion, that's fine. There's more than one way to get the job done (not to say Pace hasn't brought in good players too, but I think a lot of his problems have been signing player x when he could've had y). A good contrast, I think, is in Phil Emery, who made lots of really good under the radar signings and trades, but aside from pretty horrendous drafts, hiring Trestman when he had Bruce Arians in the door was his ultimate demise.

    When I defend Nagy, it's not to say he's perfect, but it's been a looooooong time since we had someone not embarrassing as a HC to the point where the jury is still out after year 3. Compared to the bozos we've had in the past, he's head and shoulders above to this point in time. I think he's warranted more opportunity and a longer leash for sure. I think people don't need to bash his playcalling all the time and should much more factor into account how handcuffed he is literally all the time. From being stuck with the likes of Mitch/Daniel/Foles as his QBs, to having less than stellar talent to work with, it's been a rough gig. At least his playcalling and scheme actually stands out from time to time. It may not show up in the raw offensive numbers, but again, he's calling plays with a not good offensive line and bad QB play.

    Nagy might not be the guy, but I think there's a chance he is. EVERY team complains about their playcalling. Even Chiefs fans when Reid gets "cute" or "soft" and they have the best offensive player caller of our generation and one of the best ever. My point there being the grass isn't always greener. Because I doubt anyone could even name 15 of them, I posted a link with every offensive playcaller in the league and dared anyone to name 15 guys they'd take with relative ease over Nagy. My challenge still stands.

    And I don't care if it's happened before, there's literally a 0% chance that Pace/Nagy are gone with a 10-6 season this year.
    Fair points. I agree. Heís definitely way better and more hands on than Emery or Angelo. Those eras were a disaster. Nagy has probably bought himself at least 3 more seasons with what heís done. Iím already looking towards how they can improve next year. Quentin Nelson showed me that you can change your entire organization overnight even if you donít draft a QB.

    But if they are in the market, next year is as good as any to trade up. Sooo much talent at QB in this next draft. I want Lance or that kid from Florida Traask.

  5. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    Whatever you say, Chief. I'm gonna say the sample is a bit too small to make that call.
    Thatís fine. I have a feeling if the record was reversed you wouldnít have that stance and would be claiming Nagy owns the packers. Fairly certain

  6. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Thatís fine. I have a feeling if the record was reversed you wouldnít have that stance and would be claiming Nagy owns the packers. Fairly certain
    I absolutely would not. Not when the games are that close. That would be an absolutely insane claim to make. I think you believe I think Nagy is better than he is. I'm always saying positive things about him because it's in response to how obscenely negative people here are towards him. Not because I think he's the best coach of all time.

    I also fully believe that point differential is an extremely important factor when trying to make claims about the future. So, for example, I would never say, "we're 5-1 he's doing an amazing job," because that's just not true.

  7. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    It's not. For a team to "have the others' number" would suggest that the reason a team beats the other is because of some reason other than just being more talented and better. In that situation, you're dealing with two equally talented/good teams and one of them just plays to the others' strengths and weaknesses better. That hasn't been the case of the Bears and Packers in the Rodgers era.

    I don't, for example, see the Patriots as having "had the Dolphins/Jets/Bills" number over the last 20 years. Those teams have all just been bad, and the Patriots have whooped them because they're much better and should win in most cases. It's the same thing. The Packers have just been obviously better. That's not true anymore, so they shouldn't be expected to win against the Bears because of the fact they were once better and more talented than the Bears. They're not now. This isn't that difficult.
    The thing is, saying the patriots have the Jets/bills etc number would be true. Bad teams could beat good teams. Happens all the time.

    If youíre saying that if a team has more talent than you, youíre not allowed to say they have your number, well that was a rule I was unaware of. Personally, I think itís a little silly. Especially talking about a division rival, but hey...whatever makes sense to you is fine with me.

  8. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    "If it's not working he has to be unpredictable" by what, only passing? He's not particularly predictable. Here's a challenge for you: Predict what Nagy is going to do before every play next game. I bet you're wrong a lot. Actually write down here before each play what type of call it's going to be. Not just pass or run. But inside/outside, and short/intermediate/deep. Maybe try to guess play actions before they happen.

    See how successful you are. People crying about predictability probably need to be doing that kind of thing.
    Hopefully Nagy is in hurry up all game so he doesn't have enough time to write down his play by play predictions lol. That's when the offense is at its best.


    Chicago Bears Mock Offseason Champion

  9. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaBear View Post
    Hopefully Nagy is in hurry up all game so he doesn't have enough time to write down his play by play predictions lol. That's when the offense is at its best.
    The reason that's true is that when a team goes to the hurry up they feel they have lopsidedly good matchups and don't want subs to fix it. If you're not at your best in that scenario, you're a pretty dog **** team.

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    The reason that's true is that when a team goes to the hurry up they feel they have lopsidedly good matchups and don't want subs to fix it. If you're not at your best in that scenario, you're a pretty dog **** team.
    It was just a joke man lol chill.

  11. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    The reason that's true is that when a team goes to the hurry up they feel they have lopsidedly good matchups and don't want subs to fix it. If you're not at your best in that scenario, you're a pretty dog **** team.
    And the only time the bears run it as at the end of the half or game. Do the bears only have good matchups in the standard 2 minute offense scenario?

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    The thing is, saying the patriots have the Jets/bills etc number would be true. Bad teams could beat good teams. Happens all the time.

    If youíre saying that if a team has more talent than you, youíre not allowed to say they have your number, well that was a rule I was unaware of. Personally, I think itís a little silly. Especially talking about a division rival, but hey...whatever makes sense to you is fine with me.
    I disagree. I think to say a team wins because they have the other teams' number is saying something more specific.

    Grammarist definition that's better than mine:

    To have someone's number means that the person can not take advantage of you because you understand what their game is, and you understand their true motives and goals.
    Sure, both can be true, but it's much more specific than just being a blatantly better team and winning for that reason. In the last 4 games, it's not like Green Bay has neutralized our great defenses any better than other offenses (quite the contrary). They've just won because our QB play/offense have been so bad. It's the same reason the Bears have lost to other teams the last few years. We just weren't good enough and executing well enough.

    Again, the more important question here, is what team do we expect to win? How much of an edge would you give that team?

    10 years ago, against God Rodgers, I went into those games with basically no hope because it didn't matter how good our defense played. Rodgers was gonna beat them. Now? It's pretty much 50-50. I'd give the Packers a slight edge because I think they're still a more complete team, but is that them having our number? Does that question even matter? No. Both teams could beat the other to the surprise of no one, so I don't think it's a fair claim to say one team "has the others' number" even if that might've been true in the distant past.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 10-19-2020 at 12:28 PM.

  13. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaBear View Post
    Hopefully Nagy is in hurry up all game so he doesn't have enough time to write down his play by play predictions lol. That's when the offense is at its best.
    The Bears will convert 4 straight first downs in hurry up, and then Nagy will slow things down like he did last time and call an inside draw for Monty. Donít worry, heíll give us plenty of time to post the obvious

  14. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I disagree. I think to say a team wins because they have the other teams' number is saying something more specific.

    Grammarist definition that's better than mine:



    Sure, both can be true, but it's much more specific than just being a blatantly better team and winning for that reason. In the last 4 games, it's not like Green Bay has neutralized our great defenses any better than other offenses (quite the contrary). They've just won because our QB play/offense have been so bad. It's the same reason the Bears have lost to other teams the last few years.

    Again, the more important question here, is what team do we expect to win? How much of an edge would you give that team?

    10 years ago, against God Rodgers, I went into those games with basically no hope because it didn't matter how good our defense played. Rodgers was gonna beat them. Now? It's pretty much 50-50. I'd give the Packers a slight edge because I think they're still a more complete team, but is that them having our number? Does that question even matter? No. Both teams could beat the other to the surprise of no one, so I don't think it's a fair claim to say one team "has the others' number" even if that might've been true in the distant past.
    Like I said before, do you fam. Iíll continue to believe the packers have had the bears number, both presently and pre-Nagy. At the end of the day, itís such a trivial matter of semantics, it doesnít really matter at all

  15. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Even more than the coach's record matters, a GM's record matters. At the end of the day, we've won lots of games with the teams Pace has put together. If we're winning because he found a good coach that elevates the not so great players he shows a tendency to draft/sign on occasion, that's fine. There's more than one way to get the job done (not to say Pace hasn't brought in good players too, but I think a lot of his problems have been signing player x when he could've had y). A good contrast, I think, is in Phil Emery, who made lots of really good under the radar signings and trades, but aside from pretty horrendous drafts, hiring Trestman when he had Bruce Arians in the door was his ultimate demise.

    When I defend Nagy, it's not to say he's perfect, but it's been a looooooong time since we had someone not embarrassing as a HC to the point where the jury is still out after year 3. Compared to the bozos we've had in the past, he's head and shoulders above to this point in time. I think he's warranted more opportunity and a longer leash for sure. I think people don't need to bash his playcalling all the time and should much more factor into account how handcuffed he is literally all the time. From being stuck with the likes of Mitch/Daniel/Foles as his QBs, to having less than stellar talent to work with, it's been a rough gig. At least his playcalling and scheme actually stands out from time to time. It may not show up in the raw offensive numbers, but again, he's calling plays with a not good offensive line and bad QB play.

    Nagy might not be the guy, but I think there's a chance he is. EVERY team complains about their playcalling. Even Chiefs fans when Reid gets "cute" or "soft" and they have the best offensive player caller of our generation and one of the best ever. My point there being the grass isn't always greener. Because I doubt anyone could even name 15 of them, I posted a link with every offensive playcaller in the league and dared anyone to name 15 guys they'd take with relative ease over Nagy. My challenge still stands.

    And I don't care if it's happened before, there's literally a 0% chance that Pace/Nagy are gone with a 10-6 season this year.
    I think you are spot on with most of this. Itís not always greener on the other side. My main gripe with Nagy is his stubbornness and unwillingness to adjust throughout the game.

    This game sums it all up for me, and I realize the chargers were missing a few DTís. Just give it a watch from the end of 2nd half, and then the first drives of the 2nd half.

    Itís like this every game...he canít adjust to the talent, or lack there of, that we have. Needs to swallow his pride and realize, this is a defensive built team, and trying the I formation might actually have success...I know our O-line is suspect, but I think part of this is also playcalling, like running out of shotgun.

    Playcalling in redzone has always been an issue for him. Numerous shotgun runs, a WR screen from the 5 yard line(this play usually works when you need 1-2 yards), a 1 WR only route, slant to SHAHEEN??? Another run with 22 seconds left and no timeouts?

    We come out during in the I formation because thatís what fans and media have been asking for weeks, and it works out...we score a TD easily. Then abandons it entirely and we lose because 2 bad turnovers from Mitch, when he shouldnít have been in that spot anyways.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zL9HBRgsqqY

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