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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I think your missing the point hes trying to make. Lebron is not a great player because he played in the East or had good teammates on his championship runs. It seems like people bring this up to as to a reason why he have above average talents. On top of that the reality is most championship teams have highly talented players so it dont matter how he got those players. The teams he lost to had multiple HOF so what. Just look at the teams that have the most championships or even the championships over the last 25yrs. Had you replace Lebron in those situations the results wont be the same. Going by that logic Clippers was to dominate the league. Clippers was a playoff team that added two stars one of whom was dub the best player in the league. If you swap Kawhi and Lebron would Clippers have Won?
    I think Clips win if you swap them

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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I think your missing the point hes trying to make. Lebron is not a great player because he played in the East or had good teammates on his championship runs. It seems like people bring this up to as to a reason why he have above average talents. On top of that the reality is most championship teams have highly talented players so it dont matter how he got those players. The teams he lost to had multiple HOF so what. Just look at the teams that have the most championships or even the championships over the last 25yrs. Had you replace Lebron in those situations the results wont be the same. Going by that logic Clippers was to dominate the league. Clippers was a playoff team that added two stars one of whom was dub the best player in the league. If you swap Kawhi and Lebron would Clippers have Won?
    I think the Clippers win with LeBron


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  3. #153
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    Clippers with Lebron over Kawhi definitely win the West, but beating Miami becomes less probable, but the Lakers would still be favorites of course.

    Kawhi Leonard gets massively overrated here.

  4. #154
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    The GOAT play from the GOAT player OF ALL TIME?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Clippers with Lebron over Kawhi definitely win the West, but beating Miami becomes less probable, but the Lakers would still be favorites of course.

    Kawhi Leonard gets massively overrated here.
    I donít know about that. He is a heck of a player. I donít know if the Raptors would have been better with LeBron. I definitely think the Clippers would have been. I think LeBronís play making and poise give him an edge but I also think he is a little tougher to fit around


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I donít know about that. He is a heck of a player. I donít know if the Raptors would have been better with LeBron. I definitely think the Clippers would have been. I think LeBronís play making and poise give him an edge but I also think he is a little tougher to fit around
    I'm not saying Kawhi is not part of a group that's amongst the best in the league, but I feel that people love to hype him because he came from nowhere, while they love to hype Lebron because they feel he was the chosen one and I even saw someone say that he freaking exceeded expectations

    There is strong fanboyism around and Kawhi is also getting his fair share. I think someone like his teammate Paul George is more suited to lead a team to perennial contention. At Toronto all stars aligned and we've seen them do well without Kawhi as well. The Heat reached the NBA Finals now, are we going to start saying that Jimmy Butler is the next Michael Jordan? Actually people did say that, even as a jest based on appearance and some highlighted performances he pulled off

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I'm not saying Kawhi is not part of a group that's amongst the best in the league, but I feel that people love to hype him because he came from nowhere, while they love to hype Lebron because they feel he was the chosen one and I even saw someone say that he freaking exceeded expectations

    There is strong fanboyism around and Kawhi is also getting his fair share. I think someone like his teammate Paul George is more suited to lead a team to perennial contention. At Toronto all stars aligned and we've seen them do well without Kawhi as well. The Heat reached the NBA Finals now, are we going to start saying that Jimmy Butler is the next Michael Jordan? Actually people did say that, even as a jest based on appearance and some highlighted performances he pulled off
    Sounds like you mostly just dislike anyone that a lot of people like.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Sounds like you mostly just dislike anyone that a lot of people like.
    Sounds like you once more drew a wrong conclusion out of thin air.

    Where do you see this "dislike"? Disagreeing with your opinion does not mean that the other person dislikes what you're supporting you know. Embrace this in your life before you become toxic.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I think the Clippers win with LeBron


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    I suppose he would fit the role of creater this team sorely lacks better, but without AD and with PG hitting the side of the backboard on open shots, Bron loses to Donic or something.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I suppose he would fit the role of creater this team sorely lacks better, but without AD and with PG hitting the side of the backboard on open shots, Bron loses to Donic or something.
    He seems to be that leader that brings up everyone around him and holds people accountable (even himself).

    That's what the Clippers missed.

    No one took over games, even with Kawhi having great ones. LeBron damn near takes over every game even when he only scores 25 or so.





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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    There are plenty of great moments in world basketball in the final stages of games, in monumental games.

    Some may argue that Kyrie Irving's three in the same game, moments later, was an even bigger moment!
    Christian Laettner's shot won them the championship for example, amazing moment. Unparalleled really, even if Michael Jordan's 1998 moment probably is the greatest ever. Had Jordan missed or allowed Malone to score, it wasn't game over for his team, there was another game left. But clinching the title makes it all the more glorious.

    No one is arguing that Lebron's block wasn't something glorious, but it was just to keep the team in contention, it wasn't a title decider. It just allowed Cleveland to not trail by 2 points with 2 minutes left. In fact, what makes Lebron's block special is that it was a clutch game 7 moment, but again, it's not as if it guaranteed a loss or a win. That's the idea here. The block I gave you as an example from the Greek championship finals also did not decide a title, but it was in the final seconds of the game, it could have decided the game. The other block from the Euroleague final is the equivalent of Laettner's shot, as it decided a trophy in the final seconds.

    College basketball has several epic buzzer beater moments actually at their biggest stage.

    1972 Olympics, another special moment despite horrendous officiating (same as the 1996 video I posted) where a block saves the US team from a definite loss, then Doug Collins steals the ball and hits two free throws to win the game. I know, free throws don't look sexy, but that's clutch as hell.

    The craziest game winner I've seen is from the Adriatic League final.

    Clutch shot that gives Cibona the lead with 0.6 seconds to go and everyone is celebrating, even the coach jumped into the court, then this crazy mofo buries a three from behind the half court to win the title for his team, for a brief moment both teams were celebrating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJAAAMlEtG8

    Honestly, the craziest **** ever, winner takes the trophy home. This was also in overtime.
    Assuming youre talking about the Duke shot against Kentucky? That wasnt to win the championship, that happened in their Elite 8 game.

    I'm not arguing that its the best moment or anything, but its 1 of them... its the fact you put "far superior" in front of other moments. With the Lebron block for (it felt like) 10+ possessions everyone went cold and I (and a lot of people) got the feeling next team to make a basket will win the game. Curry missed shots, Draymond missed shots, Love missed shots, Lebron missed shots... it stayed 89s for like 3 minutes of game time. While I understand your whole there was still 2 minutes left reasoning, nobody could make a shot and the next team that scored was going to probably win, and they did. I mean its all opinionated, but I dont see how some plays can be far superior... I feel like the Ray Allen shot was better, or superior than Kyries bc of the degree of difficulty. The Kyrie shot was huge but he was able to take the time and size up steph and get to the spot and the look he wanted, Ray basically had to catch it and get behind the line and launch. Its hard to rank something like Lebrons block to Kyries shot because they are different types of plays.
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Assuming youre talking about the Duke shot against Kentucky? That wasnt to win the championship, that happened in their Elite 8 game.
    Ah, my bad. Thought it was the championship winning shot. Still epic, but then it's not close enough to what I was assuming it was.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    He seems to be that leader that brings up everyone around him and holds people accountable (even himself).

    That's what the Clippers missed.

    No one took over games, even with Kawhi having great ones. LeBron damn near takes over every game even when he only scores 25 or so.





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    Nah I dont buy into that kind of stuff too much. Guys lead in different ways and Bron aint changing PG-13 going through mental depression lol.

    Kawhi and Bron played at relatively similar levels imo, the biggest factor was BY FAR AD vs Pandemic P.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Nah I dont buy into that kind of stuff too much. Guys lead in different ways and Bron aint changing PG-13 going through mental depression lol.

    Kawhi and Bron played at relatively similar levels imo, the biggest factor was BY FAR AD vs Pandemic P.
    Kawhi doesn't qb a team though, LeBron does that unlike anyone since Magic

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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Kawhi doesn't qb a team though, LeBron does that unlike anyone since Magic

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    That's cuz they're different players. Kawhi is also better defensively. It would be more apparent with the bigs the lakers have but again, you can split whatever hairs you want in a magic vs Larry type of argument, facts are, ad is a HUGE factor. Pg13 was like the Clippers 4th best player most nights lol

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    That's cuz they're different players. Kawhi is also better defensively. It would be more apparent with the bigs the lakers have but again, you can split whatever hairs you want in a magic vs Larry type of argument, facts are, ad is a HUGE factor. Pg13 was like the Clippers 4th best player most nights lol
    I agree, AD vastly outplayed PG this postseason. How do you think the rest of their casts did?

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