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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I'm not arguing that Robinson's peak wasn't better than Russell's. It absolutely is. I'm arguing that Russell's career resume in an all-time debate is stronger. Also, I've never said rings weren't important. They should be a major factor in comparing career resumes; they just shouldn't be the only factor or even the most important factor.
    I dont know if it is, maybe but out of their best seasons, how many of D-Robs would you pass before you finally had a peak Russ season?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I dont know if it is, maybe but out of their best seasons, how many of D-Robs would you pass before you finally had a peak Russ season?
    I don't know, because we're not making an apples to apples comparison in terms of stats. A lot of the stats we might use to compare an elite defensive player like Russell aren't available for his era. We can't see his blocks or steals. We can't compare their defensive ratings or see Russell's BPM or VORP. We don't have a complete picture.

    If we were just using scoring and scoring efficiency to compare the two, obviously Robinson crushes Russell. But because Russell wasn't that kind of player, and because scoring efficiency varies drastically between the two eras, I don't think it's fair to just blindly give the Admiral the edge.


  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't know, because we're not making an apples to apples comparison in terms of stats. A lot of the stats we might use to compare an elite defensive player like Russell aren't available for his era. We can't see his blocks or steals. We can't compare their defensive ratings or see Russell's BPM or VORP. We don't have a complete picture.

    If we were just using scoring and scoring efficiency to compare the two, obviously Robinson crushes Russell. But because Russell wasn't that kind of player, and because scoring efficiency varies drastically between the two eras, I don't think it's fair to just blindly give the Admiral the edge.
    To piggyback onto my earlier point, I think the more accurate stats would be how much each player impacted their team's respective defense, particularly since both are defensive anchors.

    That being said, Bill Russell anchored the best defenses of all-time in terms of relative to league average of any player in history by a wide margin:

    https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/bac...-bill-russell/

    He captained 4 of the top 5 best relative defensive seasons ever.

    For instance, in 1965 the Celtic's Drtg was 84.2 and the next best team's was 91.8. So the Celtic's Drtg was 7.6 points better than the next best team. That is insane.

    And this is what makes Bill Russell so difficult to gauge. Statistically, he was the most impactful defender ever to play. But how much of that was because he was simply that good at defense and how much of that was because he was doing things nobody was doing at the time but have become standardized today. For example, if you're the only defender playing help defense on drives you're impact relative to your era is going to look insane but if you played today when every defensive C helps on drives suddenly everyone is that impactful.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    To piggyback onto my earlier point, I think the more accurate stats would be how much each player impacted their team's respective defense, particularly since both are defensive anchors.

    That being said, Bill Russell anchored the best defenses of all-time in terms of relative to league average of any player in history by a wide margin:

    https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/bac...-bill-russell/

    He captained 4 of the top 5 best relative defensive seasons ever.

    For instance, in 1965 the Celtic's Drtg was 84.2 and the next best team's was 91.8. So the Celtic's Drtg was 7.6 points better than the next best team. That is insane.

    And this is what makes Bill Russell so difficult to gauge. Statistically, he was the most impactful defender ever to play. But how much of that was because he was simply that good at defense and how much of that was because he was doing things nobody was doing at the time but have become standardized today. For example, if you're the only defender playing help defense on drives you're impact relative to your era is going to look insane but if you played today when every defensive C helps on drives suddenly everyone is that impactful.
    Cool link. Thanks


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    so was jordan afraid of the moment when he lost all those playoff series before he had a super team ?
    Jordan never had a super team...

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    If you're going to talk about "going undefeated in the finals" then you need to count every first round second round and third round loss too.

    Of course, losses before the finals have to be weighed heavier.

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    No, no you donít. Weíre talking about finals wins and losses. People that want Lebron to be in the discussion bring up all the other rounds..

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LF85 View Post
    Jordan never had a super team...
    This guy thinks very highly of Steve Kerr


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Cool link. Thanks
    I don't know if you're being facetious or not lol

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by LF85 View Post
    No, no you donít. Weíre talking about finals wins and losses. People that want Lebron to be in the discussion bring up all the other rounds..
    But why read just the ending of the book? Wont you miss a great deal of the story?

  10. #100
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    Lebron and Mj is in the same tier as players. Mj accomplished more to date. I really dont know how many phantom calls MJ got back in the day with no media. But if i had to pick 1 i would still go with MJ but Lebron is right there. If it was not for his free throw shooting i would pick Lebron over MJ. Both Players changed how players approach the game. Lots of plays played like Mike now we have guys playing like Lebron playing different positions.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I don't know if you're being facetious or not lol
    Not at all. Itís interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Lebron and Mj is in the same tier as players. Mj accomplished more to date. I really dont know how many phantom calls MJ got back in the day with no media. But if i had to pick 1 i would still go with MJ but Lebron is right there. If it was not for his free throw shooting i would pick Lebron over MJ. Both Players changed how players approach the game. Lots of plays played like Mike now we have guys playing like Lebron playing different positions.
    Both LeBron and Mike got a very good whistle. I do think Mike got a better one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't know, because we're not making an apples to apples comparison in terms of stats. A lot of the stats we might use to compare an elite defensive player like Russell aren't available for his era. We can't see his blocks or steals. We can't compare their defensive ratings or see Russell's BPM or VORP. We don't have a complete picture.

    If we were just using scoring and scoring efficiency to compare the two, obviously Robinson crushes Russell. But because Russell wasn't that kind of player, and because scoring efficiency varies drastically between the two eras, I don't think it's fair to just blindly give the Admiral the edge.
    Yeah but we do that with them anyways in an all-time sense, you can even give him greater stocks than anyone in league history if you want, it doesn't really alter their ePER that much.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by LF85 View Post
    No, no you donít. Weíre talking about finals wins and losses. People that want Lebron to be in the discussion bring up all the other rounds..
    That's absurd. So, LeBron is penalized for carrying lesser teams to the finals lmao,and facing harder finals competition doesn't matter.

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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    That's absurd. So, LeBron is penalized for carrying lesser teams to the finals lmao,and facing harder finals competition doesn't matter.

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    think about how insane that logic is... a dude who carries a team with far lesser talent and loses in the finals against far better competition is somehow someway lesser then a guy that went 6-0 against **** finals teams all while not being able to carry any team without pippen anywhere near the finals........... jordan lovers/lebron haters are honestly moronic

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