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  1. #241
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    I hate saying this, but in no way should Kershaw pitch in Game 7. I have been witness to too many heartbreaks to bear yet another one. Save him for Game 1 of WS because we if can't beat the Braves with a combination of Gonsolin, Urias, May, Wood, Kelly, Graterol and Gonzalez...then we don't deserve to win.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Thatís one approach and I donít necessarily disagree with it... but you have to play to win tomorrow... We canít just assume the World Series will be there if we trot out Gonsolin, Urias, etc. I think Kershaw can handle 30-45 pitches on two days. May can start game 1 of the WS. Buehler can go in game 2.

    IMO, the best alternative is to rearrange the order and only use Kershaw if the game is close and you need him... but Iím sure you can already see that using him in that situation would already be fully criticized and that would be ďsetting him up for failureĒ. IMO, DR canít be worried about narratives, he has to put his best team out there to win one game.

    In either case, this is going to be a piecemeal game and I donít think you can rule out anyone with the exception of the guy who just threw 90 pitches today.
    Putting yourself in a position to fail isn't helping us win today.

    If this team had previous seasons bullpen problems, I'd agree with you. But that's not really the case here.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    The Kershaw stuff is way overblown.

    Most playoff games heís pitched heís been very good and weíve just asked too much of him - usually heís gone one inning too long.

    But heís also had some very big moments where heís come up huge.
    I think Kershaw has been the victim of wanting/trying to be THE man during the postseason, and it has not worked out well for him. There are some legitimate reasons for his struggles, and he's had some good starts. It's always one inning too long, or one batter too many, or in some cases bringing him in on short rest or in relief. Some of his starts should have had him pulled after the 4th or 5th inning.

    The problem is that we are no longer looking at a small sample size, and when he has stayed in, he's gotten absolutely pummeled, not just a hit or loss of command, it's hit after hit, and big homers at the worst time. The entire Dodger organization and fanbase want him to succeed. I love the guy, and wish the narrative was different, but Buehler has already stepped up bigger than Kershaw in the biggest of games, and it's not even close. For all of the accolades and the brilliance of his career, he's just not that good in the postseason. Nobody hits a wall like Kershaw. He can throw 6 innings of 1 hit ball, then get knocked around like Brett Tomko the next inning. When he's done, he's done. Great pitcher, maybe the best I have seen in my life, and will be a first ballot HOFer. He is not clutch. Stop trying to stretch his start, or bring him out of the bullpen for his heroic moment. He's not that guy.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    Putting yourself in a position to fail isn't helping us win today.

    If this team had previous seasons bullpen problems, I'd agree with you. But that's not really the case here.

    Why do you believe this is putting us in position to fail?

    1) Gonsolin just got shelled in 4 1/3 against this lineup in his last start

    2) Urias is also on short rest after throwing more pitches than heís ever thrown

    3) May is on one day of rest after throwing 55 pitches himself

    4) The good part of the pen is mostly taxed - but sure, we can put game 7 on the backs of Joe Kelly, Blake Trienen, Jake McGee, and Alex Wood.

    Lastly, how often is it that CK has been shelled at the start of a game?

    I say all of this to point out this conclusion... if Dave Roberts leaves the best available pitcher on the bench in game 7, or heís forced to use him in high leverage because we had to burn relievers early, and we get beat up lose, you all forfeit the right to criticize DR for it.

    Early game, low leverage usage for CK is the most logical approach to ensuring we stay in the driver seat with regard to effective usage of the bullpen in high leverage situations later in the game.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 10-18-2020 at 12:44 PM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    I think Kershaw has been the victim of wanting/trying to be THE man during the postseason, and it has not worked out well for him. There are some legitimate reasons for his struggles, and he's had some good starts. It's always one inning too long, or one batter too many, or in some cases bringing him in on short rest or in relief. Some of his starts should have had him pulled after the 4th or 5th inning.

    The problem is that we are no longer looking at a small sample size, and when he has stayed in, he's gotten absolutely pummeled, not just a hit or loss of command, it's hit after hit, and big homers at the worst time. The entire Dodger organization and fanbase want him to succeed. I love the guy, and wish the narrative was different, but Buehler has already stepped up bigger than Kershaw in the biggest of games, and it's not even close. For all of the accolades and the brilliance of his career, he's just not that good in the postseason. Nobody hits a wall like Kershaw. He can throw 6 innings of 1 hit ball, then get knocked around like Brett Tomko the next inning. When he's done, he's done. Great pitcher, maybe the best I have seen in my life, and will be a first ballot HOFer. He is not clutch. Stop trying to stretch his start, or bring him out of the bullpen for his heroic moment. He's not that guy.
    This is mostly all to my point.

    Yes, heís mostly been the victim of staying in too long - whose fault that is, whether his own ego or the managerís sentimentality, doesnít matter to me. Someone shouldíve been wise enough to get him off the mound, many times after 5 or 6, even if he was beating his chest or kicking and screaming. To me, itís a matter of understanding his a effectiveness and limits, and if we are strict with his usage, he can put us in a really good position with just 30 to 40 pitches.

    Having said that, Iím not concerned about him having his ďbig momentĒ - I just want us to put him in position to be effective and help us win this game. That position should be early in low leverage. I donít think he should pitch in relief late in the game. Kershaw is a painter. If heís relieving after the Braves lineup has grown to accustomed to seeing heavy fastballs in the game, that could have some consequences for him, especially if his command is off.

    As far as short rest is concerned, CK actually has pitched really well on short rest in the past, minus 2017 game 4 against the Astros in Minute Maid (and I donít think we can count that one). Still, he came back on short rest again to pitch game 7 at Dodger stadium and pitched a gem in relief of Yu. Granted, this is two days of rest, but itís also a very brief outing.

    Iím not saying this is the right move, but itís the one Iíd make. Give it to CK to start the game, or I might even use Kelly as the opener, then ask for 2 innings out of CK after the top of the order. It will be panned to no end, but I have more confidence in our pen closing this one out if we can keep some of them as options for matchups late in the game.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 10-18-2020 at 12:57 PM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    Interesting. I donít see Kelly at all on here. Heís only thrown 18 pitches this series. Iíd start him.


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    Yeah, I was just going off the top of my head and missed him. Heís definitely a good opener option... But also a valuable arm for a tough out or two like I suggested using May.

    Iíd be happy with using Kelly to open. But Iíd absolutely consider using CK early in the game (innings 2-3) to chew up some outs and save some of the bullpen arms for matchups.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 10-18-2020 at 11:09 AM.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Yeah, I was just going off the top of my head and missed him. Heís definitely a good opener option... But also a valuable arm for a tough out or two like I suggested using May.

    Iíd be happy with using Kelly to open. But Iíd absolutely consider using CK early in the game (innings 2-3) to chew up some outs and save some of the bullpen arms for matchups.
    Yeah I would as well. Maybe put him in when a favorable part of the lineup is up. Maybe the 4th and 5th innings, if everything is going well, could see 4-9 in their lineup. Iíd keep him away from Acuna, Freeman, and Ozuna.


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  8. #248
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    NLCS: Atlanta Braves vs Los Angeles Dodgers

    You could play the righty lefty game to keep the Braves off balance. Start with Kelly, then go Urias for a couple, then Gonsolin for a couple, then Kershaw for one...hopefully be around the 7th by then and play the last three innings based on lineup spots. Late in the game, the only guy I want to see against Acuna, Freeman, and Ozuna is Graterol.


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  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    Yeah I would as well. Maybe put him in when a favorable part of the lineup is up. Maybe the 4th and 5th innings, if everything is going well, could see 4-9 in their lineup. Iíd keep him away from Acuna, Freeman, and Ozuna.


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    Exactly.

    But for my money his innings would have to be low leverage and come early in the game.

    Iím not too concerned with him facing AcuŮa, Freeman, and Ozuna if itís in the first inning. However, I donít think he should face any hitter thatís already had an at-bat in the game, especially not those three. Although I do agree that Kelly opening would be a great idea.

    Ultimately, Iíd be trying to avoid putting Kershaw in a position where we need big outs but weíve already had to burn some of our bullpen arms due to situational matchups.

    If we use him early and heís effective, he can pass the baton to Urias/Gonsolin and that should push our best pen arms closer to the end of the game preserving some options for the big outs as needed. Otherwise, Iíd hope to get a big lead early and not have to use CK so that we could have him start G1 of the WS.

    And I agree, Graterol should be the guy that we put up against their big hitters, whether that comes in the 8th or 9th, doesnít matter - shut those ****ers down
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  10. #250
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    Like you said, hopefully we jump out to a lead early. It would make everything pitching wise so much easier.


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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    Like you said, hopefully we jump out to a lead early. It would make everything pitching wise so much easier.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Right. And, to your point, using Kelly as an opener gives us at least an inning to see if we can make that early magic happen.

    I do think this is the best approach. Use an opener, if we can have another big first, then we can back off of using CK altogether and hopefully preserve him for WS game 1. If we get nothing in the first, thatís when Iíd bring him in to pitch through the 9 spot in the order.
    The Tweeter Handle: @DSchneider_05

  12. #252
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  13. #253
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    I want Urias to come out of the pen for 3-5 innings. He has been great coming out of the pen. Maybe he can pull a Bumgarner and carry us all the way. But knowing Doc even is he is dominating he will take him out.

  14. #254
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    May 2 innings, Urias 3 innings, Kelly 2 innings...the last two innings would depend on the score and where they are in the line up.


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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamar2006 View Post
    I want Urias to come out of the pen for 3-5 innings. He has been great coming out of the pen. Maybe he can pull a Bumgarner and carry us all the way. But knowing Doc even is he is dominating he will take him out.
    I agree with you. I think Urias should be our first guy out of the pen and let him go until he gets into trouble


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