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View Poll Results: Is Ross Atkins the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays History?

Voters
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  • Yes

    3 27.27%
  • No

    8 72.73%
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Results 31 to 45 of 297
  1. #31
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    Wasn't the Boras boycott by Beeston as opposed to AA?

    Edit: Braves have signed a few Boras clients since AA took over so I doubt it would have hindered drafting Martin.
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 10-18-2020 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #32
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    Yea you have to adjust somewhat for the expanded playoffs. It's obviously an accomplishment but it can't be ignored the accomplishment is partly due to the circumstances.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    Keep in mind the bar isn't set high in terms of great GMs we have had. If we rated them as great, then it's just Gillick. I'm not sure Philly fans will feel the same way about his time there.
    I think that's what probably gets lost in the conversation.

    In terms of my criteria for a Blue Jays' GM, let me first say I look at the MLB and Jays like a European soccer league (EPL for example) until a real league wide salary cap is implemented. The Jays are traditionally a mid tier level team, minus the late 80s and early 90s where they out spent and beat most.

    For me, for a Jays GM to be successful he(she) needs to A) develop home grown young talent (from drafts or trades) B) Have good asset management: in trades and team payroll C) long term success: both in team wins and in asset management, and D) have some luck.
    That's GM'ing 101 with the only difference being the parameters around where each GM is working with - payroll constraints, prospects, ALE factor...etc. Glad you mentioned wins because somehow that gets overlooked.

    Our team success isn't just dependent on how good our roster is, but how bad/unfortunate the Yankees/Red Sox are with injuries and bad contracts for our success in the AL East based on their traditional $200 million payrolls. Not to mention Tampa, seems to excel yearly at my aforementioned criteria. Therefore, our GMs needs to be great at A and B above to see winning successes.
    be the The Rays

    JP did well to draft and develop talent, was mediocre in trades, terrible in acquiring FAs. AA was boom or bust in trades, terrible at developing homegrown talent, he signed a few top FAs, but to contracts that didn't age well, and had a lot of luck in how JB and EE turned their careers around and mediocre Boston, Yankee and Tampa teams. Let's not forget, based on the age of that 2015 team, the poorly aging contracts/FA contracts and the barren farm system, that team was built as a boom or bust, not as a dynasty for multiple years of success.
    Did you see the chart I posted a few days ago which shows the contribution based on WAR of home grown vs non home grown players. The Dodgers stood out as having the highest WAR, all other teams got most of their WAR from non homegrown talent. The Padres in particular stood out, they had the lowest WAR in that chart. I don't think anyone expected that given how bad that team has been. I think GM's need to be adept at trading - more so than drafting because that is truly hit or miss. We don't want to be the Padres, they are on their 3rd re-build and ended up trading everyone away.

    Atkins showed a hint of that trading skill when he acquired Walker and Ray at the TDL, however I don't know if that was Atkins working the phones or more the other teams dumping players. I think it was more dumping.

    I'm not going to debate you on the luck thing with JB and EE because that's another conversation that requires a bit of understanding on the inner workings of a team. In general all players are self made. There's nearly zero development at the major league level, more in the minors but still it's on the player.

    And I don't see much talk about their HBD. What happened to that? I'm really questioning it's effectiveness: Vlady's conditioning, Kirks body, Pearson and Romano's injuries....etc

    With Atkins, thus far he has developed talent well, has managed his assets in trades and fiscally well. I still don't like Grich's deal, but it aged better this year and I can live with Roark's 2 year deal. We can argue about the timing of his JD deal, but I think that has more to do with Rogers trying to fool season ticket holders than him not wanting to deal JD earlier, then his injury.

    He has made the playoffs twice, by lucking out with 8 teams this year. He has yet to make a big trade for a big name player, but Ryu is a bigger FA signing we have had since the days of Gillick (or Ash if we think about a then washed up non PED Clemens).

    Lastly, he has potentially set up this team for long term success unless he mismanages his assets. Again his tenure cannot be truly evaluated until he leaves to remove bias from it, *unless he wins a championship.
    Atkins has set-up the team very well there's no denying that but I want to see more and I agree it's way to early to offer up an assessment.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    What about just this season? You are aware that the team is rebuilding, right?
    Yes and you do realize it's not a linear path right? see injuries and non performance, it's a big thing that Atkins has to deal with.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    Aren't you using the .483 winning % to suggest Atkins isn't a good GM? I'd like to see you justify your opinion, unless you can't.
    I think it's worth noting.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    He inhereted a WS contender but Atkins had still make moves to make sure we made the 2016 playoffs.
    Correct. IIRC 5 all stars on that team

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Yea you have to adjust somewhat for the expanded playoffs. It's obviously an accomplishment but it can't be ignored the accomplishment is partly due to the circumstances.
    I agree. But itís not like it was his decision to expand the playoffs. What he does deserve credit for is recognizing that there was an opportunity to strike and taking that opportunity. Too many times in Toronto we have seen teams close and not make a move at the right time to make a push.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I agree. But itís not like it was his decision to expand the playoffs. What he does deserve credit for is recognizing that there was an opportunity to strike and taking that opportunity. Too many times in Toronto we have seen teams close and not make a move at the right time to make a push.
    Iím not saying he doesnt deserve credit, but something you have to factor in when looking as a whole

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    He inhereted a WS contender but Atkins had still make moves to make sure we made the 2016 playoffs.
    Because of the offseason he orchestrated.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 10-19-2020 at 03:26 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Yes and you do realize it's not a linear path right? see injuries and non performance, it's a big thing that Atkins has to deal with.
    It's been a pretty linear path. The team literally got worse every year from 2016-2019 as Atkins was waiting for AA's sloppy seconds to phase out while bringing up the youth.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Because of the offseason he orchestrated.
    So wait a second then. Does this mean that Atkins now gets credit for Estrada and Happ? Not LaCava?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Because of the offseason he orchestrated.
    Not sure I get this.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    So wait a second then. Does this mean that Atkins now gets credit for Estrada and Happ? Not LaCava?
    No way Atkins gets credit for those moves.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    No way Atkins gets credit for those moves.
    Well according to Chong he orchestrated that off-season. What say you, Chong?

  15. #45
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    Not really sure what he meant by that. It's wrong though.

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