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View Poll Results: Is Ross Atkins the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays History?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    3 27.27%
  • No

    8 72.73%
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Results 376 to 390 of 397
  1. #376
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    25,241
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    At the time he was starting as the president so he would be the one steering the direction of where we were to go. You tend to be less hands on once you find a guy who has the same mindset as you do. Which I probably why AA left since they probably didn't have the same way of thinking.


    It actually more or less proves that Price would never have been on the Blue Jays. Unless AA had overriding authority over Shapiro and ownership, AA didnt have final authority to make that decision. At the very least, if he did resign Price, then it would have been in collaboration with Shapiro as has been mentioned here (which disproves the idea that AA should be held solely responsible for a hypothetical that wasnt going to happen).
    Nope. Shapiro's job has always been more on the business side of things. It's exactly why Dombrowski rejected the job before Shapiro was hired. Because he'd have little to no say on player moves.

    AA had full autonomy which ended up being terrible for the club. He was exciting but he was reckless. He just left a hero before he could die a villain. If he ended up signing Price then the team would be way worse off now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #377
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    25,241
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    This is true. Thereís a lot of voices in the room. Shapiro does a lot less than people think.
    His main job is the business side of things. Stadium upgrades, HPD, actually building a player development department etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #378
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    Acquiring Price was one of AA's finest moves, point blank, if that move doesn't happen, the Jays would still hold the record for the longest MLB playoff drought. Price was pitched like a true Ace when he got to the Jays.

    Letting go of Price was also a great move.

    In the RS the guy was great, but his PO performances were not.

    He was a guy who could help you take that next step, but not the guy who could take you a step further.

    A lot of the team aside from Josh was about to go on a serious decline do to age.
    Think it was more "we dont have enough budget to fill all holes" and letting him go.

    As Shapiro mentioned, we didnt have the budget to sign Price given we lacked SP and we had no depth in AAA so we had to spread the money around. There was no scenario we would have signed him regardless of who was GM unless people make assptions like the GM has overriding factor over owenrship/president. Hard to also imagine your boss not giving the okay when you about to sign the biggest contract for a pitcher in history at the time.
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 09-14-2021 at 08:05 PM.

  4. #379
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    14,976
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    His main job is the business side of things. Stadium upgrades, HPD, actually building a player development department etc.
    I absolutely agree. He's got way too much time invested in those things to be concerned with the day to day roster moves. Now, they have said that he signs off on everything, just like a lot businesses. But that's what the rest of the team is for, they do all the work, make the recommendations and he signs off. It's not so much micro managing as it is covering his own ***.

  5. #380
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    59,046
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I absolutely agree. He's got way too much time invested in those things to be concerned with the day to day roster moves. Now, they have said that he signs off on everything, just like a lot businesses. But that's what the rest of the team is for, they do all the work, make the recommendations and he signs off. It's not so much micro managing as it is covering his own ***.
    So I guess the discussion is would he have signed off on it knowing Rogers said they had a budget? Or wpuld he have covered his *** and told Alex to find a different approach?

    I would assume the latter. I dont think he has direct discussions in day to day but hes the one steering the direction in where we should be goong. So he was telling Lacava and Atkins this is the approach we should take. And its Atkins/Lacavas job to do the gritty work to get to the direction Shapiro wanted them to go
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 09-15-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  6. #381
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    243
    Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

    The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.
    Last edited by Sasky05; 09-16-2021 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #382
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    243
    Here's some thoughts on our roster construction going forward after this season. For position players we have 5 years of control for Kirk, Espinal, Valera and Springer, 4 years for Vlad, Biggio, Mcguire and Bo, 3 years for LGJ and Jansen, 2 years for Teo and Grich. On the pitching side we have 6 years for Manoah, (I think), Pearson and Merriweather 5 years, Romano 4 years, Borucki, Richards and Mayza 3 years, Cimber, A J Cole and Ryu 2 years, Berrios and strips 1 year. This says to me we have a great roster construct with a lot of control and flexibility moving forward.

  8. #383
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

    The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.
    They could probably generate 7% returns on the savings so smart move to defer the installments.

  9. #384
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

    The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.
    I donít give AF about Rogers money. That was the most exciting baseball experience of my life and I regret nothing.

  10. #385
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    Here's some thoughts on our roster construction going forward after this season. For position players we have 5 years of control for Kirk, Espinal, Valera and Springer, 4 years for Vlad, Biggio, Mcguire and Bo, 3 years for LGJ and Jansen, 2 years for Teo and Grich. On the pitching side we have 6 years for Manoah, (I think), Pearson and Merriweather 5 years, Romano 4 years, Borucki, Richards and Mayza 3 years, Cimber, A J Cole and Ryu 2 years, Berrios and strips 1 year. This says to me we have a great roster construct with a lot of control and flexibility moving forward.
    Flexibility exists if you are willing to trade players away when they get expensive. Time will tell, but we are probably already feeling the budget crunch as early as this offseason.

  11. #386
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    They could probably generate 7% returns on the savings so smart move to defer the installments.
    Just donít Mets it.

  12. #387
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,046
    The math at the time worked out so that the Mets would have been ahead.

  13. #388
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    The math at the time worked out so that the Mets would have been ahead.
    Oh I know. Thatís the flaw in predictive models and deferring money like that. Tuloís small deferral isnít a big deal.

  14. #389
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Shore
    Posts
    12,692
    N/m
    Last edited by Kenny Powders; 09-16-2021 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #390
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,046
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Oh I know. Thatís the flaw in predictive models and deferring money like that. Tuloís small deferral isnít a big deal.
    Well you still dont want to be in that situation to begin with lkl so somewhat a big deal. But minimized if you make the accounting works.

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