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View Poll Results: Is Ross Atkins the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays History?

Voters
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  • Yes

    3 27.27%
  • No

    8 72.73%
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Results 211 to 225 of 397
  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Atkins had us in the same spot in 2016 as 2015? Sry... what?
    This, after siting run differential as a good measurement of a team hahaha. Dead.

    Then talking up signing older FA, followed by pointing out that they have trouble staying healthy.

    People keep forgetting that AA brought in the best prospect we have ever had - who is currently our franchise cornerstone. This team would be in shambles without Vlad.
    I'd Say Bo has carried us a lot longer than Vladdy Jr up to this point. Lets hope he continues his weight training and momentum as the season progresses. If La Cava gets credit to re-sign Happ and Estrada for 2016, does Ismael Cruz get credit for us actually signing Vladdy since he sold him to AA as a power hitter though he wasn't hitting for power at that time?

    What was the difference in the end between 2015 and 2016? Neither team progress any further as being my point. Does that also mean ATL's post season run have nothing to do with AA as well, since the cornerstones (Freeman, Acuna and basically everyone else) were home grown before he got there?

    Outside of Martin, which FA of substance did AA sign in his many years here as a GM and assistant GM? On that track, who of substance did he draft?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    I'd Say Bo has carried us a lot longer than Vladdy Jr up to this point. Lets hope he continues his weight training and momentum as the season progresses. If La Cava gets credit to re-sign Happ and Estrada for 2016, does Ismael Cruz get credit for us actually signing Vladdy since he sold him to AA as a power hitter though he wasn't hitting for power at that time?

    What was the difference in the end between 2015 and 2016? Neither team progress any further as being my point. Does that also mean ATL's post season run have nothing to do with AA as well, since the cornerstones (Freeman, Acuna and basically everyone else) were home grown before he got there?

    Outside of Martin, which FA of substance did AA sign in his many years here as a GM and assistant GM? On that track, who of substance did he draft?
    Imo the GM gets credit. Atkins wasnít the acting GM when happ and Estrada were signed, so no correlation.

    2015 team got further than 2016. Won the division and got the the ALChampionship game.

    No, AA doesnít get credit for putting ATLís cornerstones in place. No one has argued otherwise.

    FA? Happ. Happ was more useful than Ryu has been so far. Iím not going to list all the MLB players AA drafted. Google it.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Imo the GM gets credit. Atkins wasnít the acting GM when happ and Estrada were signed, so no correlation.

    2015 team got further than 2016. Won the division and got the the ALChampionship game.

    No, AA doesnít get credit for putting ATLís cornerstones in place. No one has argued otherwise.

    FA? Happ. Happ was more useful than Ryu has been so far. Iím not going to list all the MLB players AA drafted. Google it.
    La Cava doesn't sign them without Shapiro allowing and Atkins was starting in a week.

    Both teams made it to the AL Championship.

    It's actually a pretty small list of notable players, especially when we do not count in the 1st rounders he couldn't sign.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    La Cava doesn't sign them without Shapiro allowing and Atkins was starting in a week.

    Both teams made it to the AL Championship.

    It's actually a pretty small list of notable players, especially when we do not count in the 1st rounders he couldn't sign.
    The first rounders he didnít sign didnít become anything. Or am I misunderstanding your point?

    And so Atkins gets the credit? Have your opinion man, doesnít change mine.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    The first rounders he didnít sign didnít become anything. Or am I misunderstanding your point?

    And so Atkins gets the credit? Have your opinion man, doesnít change mine.
    Meaning AA didn't draft well or develop his picks and Vladdy was more of a sell by Cruz and nostalgic Expos name, than anything AA did to get him.

    You can love AA and hate Atkins all you'd like, however give credit to their strengths, not just their luck.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    Meaning AA didn't draft well or develop his picks and Vladdy was more of a sell by Cruz and nostalgic Expos name, than anything AA did to get him.

    You can love AA and hate Atkins all you'd like, however give credit to their strengths, not just their luck.
    Yeah thatís what Iím trying to do here. If we eliminate luck from Atkins tenure then we dont have Vlad and this team is ML club is in shambles. Without Vlad we are building around Bo, biggio and LGjr? They arenít cornerstone pieces. Bo possibly, but he hasnít been yet. Youíre giving Atkins credit for signings he didnít make, and a draft run by people he didnít hire.

    AA signed Vlad for the biggest international deal of that year. Traded for extra Intíl cap go get it done. Gave Vlad Sr a taste of our minor leagues before he retired, and used his connection with the family to get it done.
    But yeah sure if you want to believe otherwise then feel free. Iím just working with facts here.

    Are we removing all Intíl signings credit from Atkins because the team has international scouts? I donít even understand your thoughts here, but Iím not too worried. By all means think what you want.

    I donít hate Atkins. I just donít respect him.
    ď There is nothing more insulting to a great salesman than having to listen to a bad salesman. It's like a great basketball player having to listen to a bad basketball player.Ē - Michael Scott

    Hearing Atkins try to sell Canadians on the idea that 2016/2017 teams were ready to make a run at the championship... was torture. Hard to build credibility on the back of a lie like that.

    I would never hire him to my sales team.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 05-07-2021 at 01:11 PM.

  7. #217
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    Also someone posted drafted WAR since AA had a team and he was near the top of the league.
    Cant really argue asset management either considering how many flops he turned into legit talent and wins at the ML level.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yeah thatís what Iím trying to do here. If we eliminate luck from Atkins tenure then we dont have Vlad and this team is ML club is in shambles. Without Vlad we are building around Bo, biggio and LGjr? They arenít cornerstone pieces. Bo possibly, but he hasnít been yet. Youíre giving Atkins credit for signings he didnít make, and a draft run by people he didnít hire.

    AA signed Vlad for the biggest international deal of that year. Traded for extra Intíl cap go get it done. Gave Vlad Sr a taste of our minor leagues before he retired, and used his connection with the family to get it done.
    But yeah sure if you want to believe otherwise then feel free. Iím just working with facts here.

    Are we removing all Intíl signings credit from Atkins because the team has international scouts? I donít even understand your thoughts here, but Iím not too worried. By all means think what you want.

    I donít hate Atkins. I just donít respect him.
    ď There is nothing more insulting to a great salesman than having to listen to a bad salesman. It's like a great basketball player having to listen to a bad basketball player.Ē - Michael Scott

    Hearing Atkins try to sell Canadians on the idea that 2016/2017 teams were ready to make a run at the championship... was torture. Hard to build credibility on the back of a lie like that.

    I would never hire him to my sales team.
    What luck has Atkins had? If not for injuries (JD, Giles) he's able to make better trades. If not for a wife beater, (Osuna) we get more assets. If not for injuries part 2 (Yates, Springer, Merryweather, Pearson, Ray, Ryu, Kirk) we might be in first right now.

    In terms of cornerstones, I think you're forgetting who he signed (Springer, Ryu potentially Semien), who else he drafted (Martin, Pearson, Monoah, Kirk and the rest of the C's, Groshans and a bunch of international signings) and who he traded for (Teo, Ray, SWR)

    As for selling fans on 2017, was that on him or on Rogers, don't shoot the messenger. Not bad for a 3 year rebuild.

    Oh and on Vladdy.
    Baseball America
    @BaseballAmerica
    Jun 19, 2018
    Ismael Cruz signed Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Franklin Barreto with the Blue Jays. Now he's with the Dodgers.
    And they're gearing up again.

    https://twitter.com/baseballamerica/...682368?lang=en

    and

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...r-guerrero-jr/

    Wait, Atkins and Blue Jay fans are lucky after all... that AA didn't trade Vladdy during the farm purge of 2015.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Also someone posted drafted WAR since AA had a team and he was near the top of the league.
    Cant really argue asset management either considering how many flops he turned into legit talent and wins at the ML level.
    I'd like to see that and compare that with Shapiro, Beane, Friedman or Zaidi.

    I'm Sure he's higher than Atkins now, but let's wait 10-20 years when this post and their careers might be as meaningless as this post to decide who got more WAR out of their drafts...

    As a side question, how much of that WAR was earned in a Blue Jays jersey? Other than Stroman, Sanchez, Pillar and Goins, I'm not sure who had earned most of that WAR for us.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Imo the GM gets credit. Atkins wasnít the acting GM when happ and Estrada were signed, so no correlation.

    2015 team got further than 2016. Won the division and got the the ALChampionship game.

    No, AA doesnít get credit for putting ATLís cornerstones in place. No one has argued otherwise.

    FA? Happ. Happ was more useful than Ryu has been so far. Iím not going to list all the MLB players AA drafted. Google it.
    Yeah, because he literally traded all the good ones away lol. Thor, DeSclafini and thatís about it. The rest are a garbage heap.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    What luck has Atkins had? If not for injuries (JD, Giles) he's able to make better trades. If not for a wife beater, (Osuna) we get more assets. If not for injuries part 2 (Yates, Springer, Merryweather, Pearson, Ray, Ryu, Kirk) we might be in first right now.

    In terms of cornerstones, I think you're forgetting who he signed (Springer, Ryu potentially Semien), who else he drafted (Martin, Pearson, Monoah, Kirk and the rest of the C's, Groshans and a bunch of international signings) and who he traded for (Teo, Ray, SWR)

    As for selling fans on 2017, was that on him or on Rogers, don't shoot the messenger. Not bad for a 3 year rebuild.

    Oh and on Vladdy.
    Baseball America
    @BaseballAmerica
    Jun 19, 2018
    Ismael Cruz signed Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Franklin Barreto with the Blue Jays. Now he's with the Dodgers.
    And they're gearing up again.

    https://twitter.com/baseballamerica/...682368?lang=en

    and

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...r-guerrero-jr/

    Wait, Atkins and Blue Jay fans are lucky after all... that AA didn't trade Vladdy during the farm purge of 2015.
    Lol he just pivots to another imaginary point whenever you prove him wrong. He has a hard time accepting that AA was a bad GM. Especially after having him replaced with the great creator, Ross Atkins. Thank goodness AA rejected that contract otherwise weíd be in the basement.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    What luck has Atkins had? If not for injuries (JD, Giles) he's able to make better trades. If not for a wife beater, (Osuna) we get more assets. If not for injuries part 2 (Yates, Springer, Merryweather, Pearson, Ray, Ryu, Kirk) we might be in first right now.

    In terms of cornerstones, I think you're forgetting who he signed (Springer, Ryu potentially Semien), who else he drafted (Martin, Pearson, Monoah, Kirk and the rest of the C's, Groshans and a bunch of international signings) and who he traded for (Teo, Ray, SWR)

    As for selling fans on 2017, was that on him or on Rogers, don't shoot the messenger. Not bad for a 3 year rebuild.

    Oh and on Vladdy.
    Baseball America
    @BaseballAmerica
    Jun 19, 2018
    Ismael Cruz signed Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Franklin Barreto with the Blue Jays. Now he's with the Dodgers.
    And they're gearing up again.

    https://twitter.com/baseballamerica/...682368?lang=en

    and

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...r-guerrero-jr/

    Wait, Atkins and Blue Jay fans are lucky after all... that AA didn't trade Vladdy during the farm purge of 2015.
    What you call bad luck, I call incompetence. Had Atkins properly evaluated his roster, he would have realized that that edition of the Jays was done in 2017. They were an aging team and all his main players were regressing. Those players should have been dealt during that season or at the latest before the 2018 season. Instead he told lies and said...if they had better back up players we would have won...so he replaced players like Goins with Diaz and tried again with an aging team. He held onto them for too long and then got nothing for them. The rebuild is suffering from this now.

    Sure he signed Springer and I can't wait for him to play two games. Ryu is on the IL now and by the time the "rebuild" is over he will be well past his prime and useless. Semien is only here to build his value and sign something long term elsewhere. He is only a placeholder in the Jays system until Groshan arrives. Honestly, if he does anything this year at all, he better be dealt at the TDL.

    But. I look forward to years 7, 8, and 9 of the rebuild just as I looked forward to episodes 7, 8, and 9 of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. We all know how those turned out...

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Lol he just pivots to another imaginary point whenever you prove him wrong. He has a hard time accepting that AA was a bad GM. Especially after having him replaced with the great creator, Ross Atkins. Thank goodness AA rejected that contract otherwise weíd be in the basement.
    What exactly has he created beside graduating a couple players from the minors to the majors? He has players that can't seem to stay of the IL (if it was just this year than I would say it was a fluke), he signs bad players to deals that should never have happened (Grichuk, Roark), and he signs and trades for ****** players, like Brito and Fischer, were the next coming of Christ. But he did get us Hernandez, so I guess all is forgiven.

  14. #224
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    That Teo trade was pretty savvy. Got the Astros to buy on a player to be in a role they nevvr had. Though that Teo trade doesnt happen if we signed EE to a 5 year deal. In fact, many would probably have a completely different opinion of Atkins if he signed EE. Half the young players on the team dont exist. He did a great job rebuilding the farm with top talent but that wasnt his intention coming in thats for sure.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Yeah, because he literally traded all the good ones away lol. Thor, DeSclafini and thatís about it. The rest are a garbage heap.
    You donít argue intelligently. I think you need to google it too.

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