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  1. #181
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilemplover View Post
    1.) We agree.. no argument
    2.) I never said sevy will be back.. could be.. Hell yes.. it's possible.. mid-season is more probable for him to be settling down into the pitcher we like....April.. I'm being optimistic...but it's really possible too.. so we'll have to wait and see..
    3.) German... again, optimism.. he wasn't out due to injury.. he was out due to a commish on a power rush... he stands a really good chance of being that guy we saw in 2019
    4.) Monty.. Damn right he deserves a spot.. he was 6th in ROY voting his rookie year then had elbow issues.. and would have been back sooner if he had just gotten the same surgery rather than try to rehab it (and failed) and ended up wasting half a season... Sometimes these guys just need to suck it up and get it done. For every Tanaka who was able to rehab.. there are 100+ others who it has no effect... He's also done pretty good when just put in the lineup and in our playoff run.. He just needs to be put in there and left alone.
    5.) Garcia.. here is where it sucks being a Yankee.. on any other team he'll be the #5 and he'll still be that #5 all year even if he's somewhat rocked.. he needs to develop and that don't happen by sitting on the bench.. how is it the Tampa rays can take specs and have better pitching than us? They don't have fans.. NOBODY cares.. so they trot these guys out every 5th day and they take their lumps and learn. He shows us this year he can do it.. trot him out there.. and just suck it up and know we're going to get some lemons and some lemonade and don't roast him when it's just the lemons...

    The rest of the guys.. Sadly, no team is really able to go an entire season with just 5 guys.. so they'll get some shots as backups...
    I also agree, we need to sign someone.. whether is a redo of Tanaka or Pax... or Bauer.. because I do agree.. Sevy may not be fully ready in April... but if we don't, I'm comfy with what we have and just let the kids learn... that quick hook only helps the rest of baseball (when we either move these young guys to them for some has-been.. or after the repeated use of the hook demoralizes them and they begin to believe they suck and become the self fullfilling prophecy...)

    The pen is still loaded.. and given a normal year.. and a New manager with even a little smarts on how to use w/o abusing it, they'll be fine... because really.. Aaron Boone is that guy who you point to, to show WHAT NOT TO DO... He rather reminds me of Jack Eliot's coach Uchimaya in the movie Mr. Baseball.... 1 bad pitch and the quick hook...
    I sure hope that your time frame ends up being correct with Sevy. When healthy he's got some of the best stuff in baseball ( he was also working on a 2seam/ cutter and Curveball last winter before he got hurt). If Sevy could get in the rotation by May/June and pitch his was back into his normal self by August that would so so huge for us

    I'm extremely optimistic that German will comeback as a very similar pitcher as he was in 19. That said he was really only a full time starter for less than a season and who knows where his head is at after a yr + away from the team

    I agree with you both about Monty and Garcia

    I think it would be very foolish on the Yanks part to risk the success of the season by not getting enough quality pitching. We really need to get an elite #2 behind Cole, if they can acquire someone good enough they could get away with building the rest of the rotation from the pieces we have

    I also agree with you about how much easier it is to develop starting pitching or pitching in gereral in a small market like Tampa that isn't obsessed with instant results. I've seen the fans/media turn on our pitching specs after 1 bad outing. Young pitchers are going to struggle, its a fact of baseball but if u make them feel like if they give up 1 walk or hit they will be out, it makes it that much tougher on the kids.
    I would be incredibly interested to know if big market teams or smaller market teams develop more TORP than the other. I could completely see it being far more difficult for a young pitcher to progress in front of large crowds, especially the more critical fan bases

    I completely agree about Boone, especially the bolded. I disagree about our pen though, 3-4 yrs ago we had 5plus AS type arms in the pen, now do we even have 2? I think Brit is still elite but Chappy's lost a step and Green wasn't the same this yr. Other than those 3 is there anyone else in that pen you would trust in a big situation?

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
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    132
    Dayners post is spot on. Besides Cole, none of our current rotation pieces can pitch 150 innings. Even Monty, who is coming off of TJ, has not pitched 50 innings since 2017.

    And, I'm not sold on Tanaka. He looks tired and there's always that elbow tear, which eventually blows. Why tempt fate? He's getting more than 2/$30 or 3/$45 anyway.

    The more I think about it, the rotation is going to be garbage next year. I really can't see them getting Bauer and we really need Bauer X 2. Who else is there? Robby Ray/Mike Minor and there 6.0 ERAs.

    Think about all the solid (maybe not Aces) we've passed on over the years that could have prevented us from being in this position. Morton, Corbin, Darvish, Wheeler.

    My guess is they will try to bring back Tanaka and Happ on reduced deals and we can open a 2022 offseason thread in a couple of months.

  3. #183
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    Oct 2020
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    132
    Chappy will be fine. The problem is our middle relief. Green hasn't been great since 2018. We need a bunch of hard throwing guys that can pitch multiple innings like Tampa.

  4. #184
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    Do we accept Birttonís option for 2022? We have 3-5 days after the WS to resign him for 2/27. Or do we save that money to use for DJ and Tanaka?

    The Rays donít have a bullie piece making $13-14 million per with any of their guys. Zach makes more per year than their entire bullpen put together and their bullpen shut the Yankees lineup down! And the Astros so far too!
    My favorite Top 10 Rolling Stones songs
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  5. #185
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    This team is starting to get long in the tooth.

    Thst window from 2017 is about to close.

    This young core canít even touch a WS let along win a WS. They are no different than the crap we had from 2002-2008...


    Move em out and reshuffle!

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Honolulu, Hawaii
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    215
    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    As far as the plan for the pitching i would respectfully disagree.
    1)Cole he's exactly what we paid him to be, we won't have to worry about that spot for a long time hopefully

    2) Sevy. It will be over 2yr since he's regularly pitched, even if his stuff comes back close to 100%, he has to relearn a ton of things.He's basically has to relearn to pitch to live hitters again. IMO anything we get from him next yr should be counted on as a bonus but not counted on.?

    3) German. Very similar issues with him as with Sevy. It will be close to 20 months since he's been on the mound regularly and what makes his situation even more difficult is that he wasn't allowed to be in the Yanks facility or be in contact with coaches. German had 1 very successful yr but he hardly has the track record that indicates he'll be the same or close to the same pitcher he was during his breakout yr ??

    4) Monty definitely earned another shot at the rotation with that gutsy playoff start but is he the MORP he appeared to be his rookie yr or the the 5th starter/ long reliever type that he looked this yr.???

    5) Garcia has shown tremendous flashes of talent but is still only 21, very inexperienced and is no where near a finished product. The most IN he's ever pitched in a yr is 111 in 2019 and he fatigued very badly towards the end of the season. There are also concerns that because of his slight build/frame and violent, max energy arm motion that he'll be able to stay healthy throwing a 150 IN +. Another issue is that he only threw about 35 IN this yr and i just don't see the Yanks pushing 1 of their more promising arms like that with over 100+ IN increase yr over yr ????

    6) Schmidt he also has shown a ton of promise but he has even fewer IP than Garcia and they are going to give him a 100 IP increase next yr when he's thrown less than a 120 professional innings since being drafted. ?????

    7) we have another big group of elite, high ceiling arms that aren't quite ready yet but could contribute some next yr. I would bet with the large group of pitchers we have coming, we get a couple of really good starters and BP arms. Unfortunately they really won't be ready, barring a nuclear rise, to seriously contribute next yr

    I absolutely think priority 1 has to be to get a legit 2nd ace or legit #2 behind Cole. A pitcher Better than Tanaka, a pitcher good enough we won't have to pull another BS stunt like they did in game 2.They need someone who is good enough to match up with a Glasnow and not be at a massive disadvantage.

    As we saw in the Tampa series, Cole was the only starter that we had that kept runs off the board. At one point non Cole pitchers gave up 24 runs in 25 IN between the 2 series. If were going to stay and compete with the big boys we have to have more reliable pitching. We've seen yr after yr, that elite pitching is what wins in the playoffs. I might hurt with what we have to pay/give up but its time for our annual scramble for starting pitching to end

    I see Bauer, even though unlikely, as the best fix. He's a legit ace and only wants a 1yr deal so no big, long term financial commitments. I think we would benefit immensely from his fire and competitiveness on that staff, we seem to be lacking that kind of guy

    I also think they need a steady veteran like Tanaka in the middle of the rotation. If they can get someone better than him for similar money, 2-3yrs @ 10-14 per would be my guess, awesome. That said with as well as he's pitched here and the familiarity between the 2 they bring him back. If he ended up being our 4th/5th starter after Sevy and German get back we would be in pretty good shape rotation wise.

    Then use the rest of the starters we have to fill out the rest of the rotation. We saw what happened in 08 going with 3 inexperienced starters and we can't afford to loose another peak yr of our core players.

    8) that pen used to be loaded, we saw what a loaded pen looked like when we played Tampa. Outside of Green and Chappy who weren't great this yr and Britton what did we really have in the pen this yr. Otto completely lost it, Kahnle is on his 2nd TJS so i doubt he makes it back next yr, then we have a bunch of question marks.

    We have guys like Albert Abreau, Nick Nelson, Alexander Vizcaino, Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras and other that could contribute next yr but are unlikely to be ready to seriously contribute .

    IMO, even with those guys i think we need atleast 2 reliable BP arms and maybe take a chance on a failed starter or 2 like Chris Archer, Aaron Sanchez, Jose Quintana type and see if u couldn't make them a reliever. There have been teams that have had huge success turning a failed starter into a relievers.

    It would be great to get a better closer but we really don't need to be shopping for that kind of reliever this winter. What we should be looking for are 3rd,4th type reliever. The relief pitcher/failed starter options this winter is actually pretty good. With as depressed as the FA market this winter will be, especially with mid-tier players, we should be able to add some quality middle relievers without breaking the bank

    Hal and Cashman need to realize the window to win with this core group is closing and they need to go and get the pieces to win next yr. Cashman has been playing things incredibly safe and been way to protective of some prospects. He has to be willing to take some chances and be willing to make to big trades to get the players that we need to win a WS.

    If i were Cashman i would try and find out what all the MLB players and MILB players are worth trade wise. The only spec i would consider completely consider untouchable is Dominguez. Other than him Cashman should be willing to listen on everyone and see if we get offered a Shelby Miller type deal that we just can't refuse.

    IMO if were going to compete seriously next yr were going to have to have a very busy, productive winter
    I'm scared the league has figured out Tanaka, lay off his splitter. And he's become a 5 inning SP. If the Yanks don't resign him, he'll probably go to the Angels who desperately need pitching and he might do well with all his fly balls staying in the park due to the marine layer over there in Cali. His 12M a year or so salary can go to Stroman for 2-3 yr contract. Maybe Stroman ends up sucking but I like the thought of a ground ball pitcher with our infield. He'd be a decent #3 or really good #4.

    Next year they don't have clear choices as to who will slot in the rotation after Cole. Sevy, German, Garcia, Schmidt all probably come with innings limits due to being young or coming back from injury. Not to mention the minor leaguers you listed Albert Abreau, Nick Nelson, Alexander Vizcaino, Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras. How about the Yankees start thinking out of the box? Do something like what the Rays did in game 5. Run out 3 pitchers who each go thru one time of the batting order...if you're winning it's Green, Britton and Chapman time. Whether this is flawed or not I'm sure some of you will tell me so lol. But I think it's a great way to get some of these younger guys experience throwing to major league hitters especially the ones who don't have a 3rd pitch yet.

  7. #187
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    Cashman and Boone should be embarrassed that the Rays with their cheap bullpen and crummy lineup and are just 2 wins away from going to the WS.

    And if they do make it that would mean the Rays and their low payroll would have 2 WS appearances since 2008 and the Yankees have just ONE lousy appearance during the same time frame.

    Pathetic by Cashman!

  8. #188
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    Dec 2013
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    5,803
    Quote Originally Posted by evilemplover View Post
    1.) We agree.. no argument
    2.) I never said sevy will be back.. could be.. Hell yes.. it's possible.. mid-season is more probable for him to be settling down into the pitcher we like....April.. I'm being optimistic...but it's really possible too.. so we'll have to wait and see..
    3.) German... again, optimism.. he wasn't out due to injury.. he was out due to a commish on a power rush... he stands a really good chance of being that guy we saw in 2019
    4.) Monty.. Damn right he deserves a spot.. he was 6th in ROY voting his rookie year then had elbow issues.. and would have been back sooner if he had just gotten the same surgery rather than try to rehab it (and failed) and ended up wasting half a season... Sometimes these guys just need to suck it up and get it done. For every Tanaka who was able to rehab.. there are 100+ others who it has no effect... He's also done pretty good when just put in the lineup and in our playoff run.. He just needs to be put in there and left alone.
    5.) Garcia.. here is where it sucks being a Yankee.. on any other team he'll be the #5 and he'll still be that #5 all year even if he's somewhat rocked.. he needs to develop and that don't happen by sitting on the bench.. how is it the Tampa rays can take specs and have better pitching than us? They don't have fans.. NOBODY cares.. so they trot these guys out every 5th day and they take their lumps and learn. He shows us this year he can do it.. trot him out there.. and just suck it up and know we're going to get some lemons and some lemonade and don't roast him when it's just the lemons...

    The rest of the guys.. Sadly, no team is really able to go an entire season with just 5 guys.. so they'll get some shots as backups...
    I also agree, we need to sign someone.. whether is a redo of Tanaka or Pax... or Bauer.. because I do agree.. Sevy may not be fully ready in April... but if we don't, I'm comfy with what we have and just let the kids learn... that quick hook only helps the rest of baseball (when we either move these young guys to them for some has-been.. or after the repeated use of the hook demoralizes them and they begin to believe they suck and become the self fullfilling prophecy...)

    The pen is still loaded.. and given a normal year.. and a New manager with even a little smarts on how to use w/o abusing it, they'll be fine... because really.. Aaron Boone is that guy who you point to, to show WHAT NOT TO DO... He rather reminds me of Jack Eliot's coach Uchimaya in the movie Mr. Baseball.... 1 bad pitch and the quick hook...
    the pen is loaded really? chapman has lost the last 2 elimination games for the yanks..green has had many terrible playoff performances ottavino is garbage only one i trust in the pen is britton...99% of the time it will come down to the bullpens in the playoffs unless your team is one of the best and dominates early...tampa has a loaded and much better pen then the yankees. and that is just one of the major problems the yanks team has .. including to dependent on the long ball not enough contact hitters.. and the starting pitching....i think unless a major overhaul is coming the yanks will only go backward for the next few years..
    Last edited by johnny ny; 10-13-2020 at 11:22 AM.

  9. #189
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    Since the 2004 Collapse the Yankees have been Oct failures!

  10. #190
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    Jan 2020
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    8,277
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    the pen is loaded really? chapman has lost the last 2 elimination games for the yanks..green has had many terrible playoff performances ottavino is garbage only one i trust in the pen is britton...99% of the time it will come down to the bullpens in the playoffs unless your team is one of the best and dominates early...tampa has a loaded and much better pen then the yankees. and that is just one of the major problems the yanks team has .. including to dependent on the long ball not enough contact hitters.. and the starting pitching....i think unless a major overhaul is coming the yanks will only go backward for the next few years..
    I wouldnít say a major overhaul is needed but a lot of work is really needed to make this team a real ws contender . Mainly with the pitching .

  11. #191
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    Jan 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Cashman and Boone should be embarrassed that the Rays with their cheap bullpen and crummy lineup and are just 2 wins away from going to the WS.

    And if they do make it that would mean the Rays and their low payroll would have 2 WS appearances since 2008 and the Yankees have just ONE lousy appearance during the same time frame.

    Pathetic by Cashman!

    Nothing to be embarrassed about when losing to a team with better pitching than yours . What theyíd should be embarrassed about is the crap the pulled in game 2 , thinking they could beat Tampa at their own game when everyone knows the yanks donít have the pitching talent to pull off such a move .

  12. #192
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Do we accept Birttonís option for 2022? We have 3-5 days after the WS to resign him for 2/27. Or do we save that money to use for DJ and Tanaka?

    The Rays donít have a bullie piece making $13-14 million per with any of their guys. Zach makes more per year than their entire bullpen put together and their bullpen shut the Yankees lineup down! And the Astros so far too!

    The yankees can use that money to sign cheaper closers on the mend, like yates and robertson, and whomever else they want. Frankly, Britton always makes me nervous with how many ppl he wants. And for whatever reason, he's not throwing his sinker that much this year. Normally, i'd say, keep him, but if I can get 2 closers for the price of one...

  13. #193
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    Mar 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    The yankees can use that money to sign cheaper closers on the mend, like yates and robertson, and whomever else they want. Frankly, Britton always makes me nervous with how many ppl he wants. And for whatever reason, he's not throwing his sinker that much this year. Normally, i'd say, keep him, but if I can get 2 closers for the price of one...
    Britton was more consistent than even Chapman in 2020. Who was getting saves in that first mknth when we got off to that great start? Hint-- It wasn't Chap!

  14. #194
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    Dec 2011
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    17,048
    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Do we accept Birttonís option for 2022? We have 3-5 days after the WS to resign him for 2/27. Or do we save that money to use for DJ and Tanaka?

    The Rays donít have a bullie piece making $13-14 million per with any of their guys. Zach makes more per year than their entire bullpen put together and their bullpen shut the Yankees lineup down! And the Astros so far too!
    Britton has performed. Wait and see on the option. They need BP arms. DJ is a priority, they have $140M committed. That should leave ample room. Tanaka, I have lost a bit of confidence, off season exam is probably already scheduled.

    You must tip your cap to Tampa's development program. They do it on a shoe string. Therein lies the good and bad. They should be commended for the effort, unfortunately once it's time to pay their talent they leave and chase the money. Can't blame them. Many have been playing and winning at league minimum salary or fairly low arb numbers. Seems like once they have the opportunity for real money they bolt.

  15. #195
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    Already the front office starting this off season with stupidity, they are bringing back Boone next season.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...l-steinbrenner
    Last edited by Posada20; 10-13-2020 at 04:58 PM.

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