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  1. #2881
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Can NOT underestimate the impact of losing Sevy and German. I now sound like a broken record. (or CD for those that aren't familiar with those 12", round black things that play music.) Paxton loss just amplified the mess.

    Conversely I don't think we should underestimate the addition of those two in 2021. It's akin to grabbing a top shelf FA imo.

    ps. That is not in anyway intended to suggest they DON'T need additional help in the rotation. Just means the situ isn't as grave as being suggested by certain donkey's.
    Shouldnít over estimate what sevy and German will do this season as well . You keep forgetting that neither have started a game in over a year and in sevy Ďs case itís been 2 years . At the very least fatigue will most likely be a factor . Then there is the fact that sevy will be pitching with restrictions and limitations this season . Last I checked top shelf free agents donít pitch with limitations and restrictions .
    Last edited by Posada20; 01-12-2021 at 11:22 AM.

  2. #2882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Shouldnít over estimate what sevy and German will do this season as well . You keep forgetting that neither have started a game in over a year and in sevy Ďs case itís been 2 years . At the very least fatigue will most likely be a factor . Then there is the fact that sevy will be pitching with restrictions and limitations this season . Last I checked top shelf free agents donít pitch with limitations and restrictions .
    True. Is it any different than the situ you were touting as superior to Yankees rotation, with Sale and Rodriguez in Boston? Imo Bostons situ is far worse, their pitching is in shambles by comparison. Will there be restrictions and limitations on Sale and Rodgriguez? I expect there will be.

    No injury concern with German, only rust. You are right in one sense, we should not over estimate the contribution this season. However you are talking about Yankees best pitcher in 2019 and one of the best young arms to come thru the system in a long time. Imo losing Sevy for a second year was the beginning of the Yankees pitching problems.

    Having missed him the last two years, it is easy to forget how dominant he was. And at just 26 (27 in February) Sevy still has the potential to become the next dominant pitcher.

    In 2017 and 2018 Sevy threw 384 innings, struck out 450 batters and pitched to a 3.18 ERA. Sevy was one of the most dominant forces in baseball and if he can recapture his magic, Cole and Severino could be the best duo in baseball. This is precisely the reason I suggest the return of BOTH can be equated with the acquisition of a top shelf FA arm. They missed them both. Their return should be heralded not questioned.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,Ē JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    ďNot everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.Ē---- James Baldwin




  3. #2883
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    True. Is it any different than the situ you were touting as superior to Yankees rotation, with Sale and Rodriguez in Boston? Imo Bostons situ is far worse, their pitching is in shambles by comparison. Will there be restrictions and limitations on Sale and Rodgriguez? I expect there will be.

    No injury concern with German, only rust. You are right in one sense, we should not over estimate the contribution this season. However you are talking about Yankees best pitcher in 2019 and one of the best young arms to come thru the system in a long time. Imo losing Sevy for a second year was the beginning of the Yankees pitching problems.

    Having missed him the last two years, it is easy to forget how dominant he was. And at just 26 (27 in February) Sevy still has the potential to become the next dominant pitcher.

    In 2017 and 2018 Sevy threw 384 innings, struck out 450 batters and pitched to a 3.18 ERA. Sevy was one of the most dominant forces in baseball and if he can recapture his magic, Cole and Severino could be the best duo in baseball. This is precisely the reason I suggest the return of BOTH can be equated with the acquisition of a top shelf FA arm. They missed them both. Their return should be heralded not questioned.
    First of all I never said Bostonís rotation was superior or even better than the Yankees rotation so quit putting words in my mouth to suit your narrative . And second , who the hell cares what sevy and German did in the past. Right now sevy is coming back from TJ and German a long suspension . The fact remains that neither have pitched a game in over a year and in sevyís case itís been 2 years . I am not saying they will be bad . I am saying not to over estimate what they will do this season . At the very least there is a good possibility that fatigue will be a factor for both of them . Heck it was a factor in that the ONE season that German pitched as a starter . Atleast I am being realistic in saying that we donít know what we will get from sevy and German .

  4. #2884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    It is both hal and cashman that are being incredibly stupid . Yes hal is being a cheap tightwad who doesnít care about winning a ws . But there is still no excuse for cashman not for being able to make a trade like the Padres or mets have done . They would still be below or right at 210 mill if he made any of those trades . So at the very least they both equally to blame for this crap . But I give cashman slightly more blame because I good GM worth his weight could pull off a big trade without adding too much to the payroll . A good gm doesnít keep hoarding players in the minors like cashman has done so far . He has added 11 players to the minors this off season , 11 players!


    As for dj . I donít think any team will offer him 5 years. What might happen is that one team might make him an offer similar or slightly more per year over 4 years . I think he might be using the Yankees offer as leverage to get a similar one so that he can leave . I donít think dj really wants to stay with the Yankees . If he did he would have taken their offer by now .

    One of the highest payrolls in baseball and you accuse him of being cheap? SERIOUSLY?
    The REAL DEAL Yankee fan

  5. #2885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    First of all I never said Bostonís rotation was superior or even better than the Yankees rotation so quit putting words in my mouth to suit your narrative . And second , who the hell cares what sevy and German did in the past. Right now sevy is coming back from TJ and German a long suspension . The fact remains that neither have pitched a game in over a year and in sevyís case itís been 2 years . I am not saying they will be bad . I am saying not to over estimate what they will do this season . At the very least there is a good possibility that fatigue will be a factor for both of them . Heck it was a factor in that the ONE season that German pitched as a starter . Atleast I am being realistic in saying that we donít know what we will get from sevy and German .
    How do you read the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Without an arm they would atleast be in the mix for the division . I mean right now can anyone honestly say the yanks rotation is that much better than the Red Sox ? I mean dj would make them close to even with the Yanks imo .
    Past performance is a barometer, an indication. Do I really need to explain this? Are you that dense or is it just the contrarian coming out?

    I thought I was agreeing with you in exercising caution in over estimation. While also suggesting based on past performance they are significant upgrades.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,Ē JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    ďNot everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.Ē---- James Baldwin




  6. #2886
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    How do you read the following:



    Past performance is a barometer, an indication. Do I really need to explain this? Are you that dense or is it just the contrarian coming out?

    I thought I was agreeing with you in exercising caution in over estimation. While also suggesting based on past performance they are significant upgrades.
    I read that as someone saying the Yankees rotation is not a lot better than the Red Sox rotation . Not that the Red Sox rotation is superior or even better than the Yankees rotation . Saying they are significant upgrades is not being realistic at all when even you admitted that we donít know what we will get from them . Saying that two unknowns are the same as a top shelf free agent is not being realistic , hopeful maybe but not realistic. Being realistic is saying that the Yankees rotation behind cole is just full of unknowns and really needs help .

  7. #2887
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    True. Is it any different than the situ you were touting as superior to Yankees rotation, with Sale and Rodriguez in Boston? Imo Bostons situ is far worse, their pitching is in shambles by comparison. Will there be restrictions and limitations on Sale and Rodgriguez? I expect there will be.

    No injury concern with German, only rust. You are right in one sense, we should not over estimate the contribution this season. However you are talking about Yankees best pitcher in 2019 and one of the best young arms to come thru the system in a long time. Imo losing Sevy for a second year was the beginning of the Yankees pitching problems.

    Having missed him the last two years, it is easy to forget how dominant he was. And at just 26 (27 in February) Sevy still has the potential to become the next dominant pitcher.

    In 2017 and 2018 Sevy threw 384 innings, struck out 450 batters and pitched to a 3.18 ERA. Sevy was one of the most dominant forces in baseball and if he can recapture his magic, Cole and Severino could be the best duo in baseball. This is precisely the reason I suggest the return of BOTH can be equated with the acquisition of a top shelf FA arm. They missed them both. Their return should be heralded not questioned.

    how do you explain sevy 2018 complete second half meltdown..actually even before the second half. you cannot depend on sevy until he proves he is dependable...

  8. #2888
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    how do you explain sevy 2018 complete second half meltdown..actually even before the second half. you cannot depend on sevy until he proves he is dependable...
    Then there is the fact that German struggled in the second half of 19 too . He became more hittable in the second half of that season . The only reason why he wasnít moved to the bullpen a lot sooner is because they had no one else to take his spot on the rotation , sevy was on the dL that whole season, Tanaka was bad and got hurt too , cc was old and hurt and then his arm literally fell off in the playoffs that year .

    And yet despite all this I am supposed to believe they are gonna be the equivalent of a top shelf free agent ?

  9. #2889
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    This was pretty funny.




    Dylan Hornik
    @_Hornik_

    1h
    Mets offseason:
    - New Owner
    - New President
    - New GM
    - Paid furloughed Citi Field workers
    - James McCann
    - Trevor May
    - Francisco Lindor
    - Carlos Carrasco
    - Offered Citi Field as a vaccination center

    Yankees offseason:
    - Greg Allen
    - Tyler Lyons
    - Made DJ LeMahieu upset



    Ignorance is bliss

  10. #2890
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    Unknowns? Seriously? One was arguably the most dominant pitcher in MLB in 2017-18 the other led the ML in win% in 2019. How can you even argue that the addition of both are not an upgrade? Question. In game two would you have been more comfortable with Sevy / German over a rookie Garcia? Not a knock on Garcia, just a reality. He's a rook with very limited ML experience thrown into a situ he may not have been completely prepared to handle.

    Using your exact logic, is it fair to say bringing in a top shelf FA pitcher is also an unknown? Can he pitch in NYC? The list is long. Start with Gray, Igawa, Wright, Contreras, Farnsworth, Rogers, Brown, Pavano, Whitson, I'm sure you get the gist. No guarantees, regardless of how highly touted or track record. Sevy and German have proven they can pitch and pitch effectively in NYC!

    Is the loss of Happ significant?

    One could also interpret your comment to mean Sox rotation is as good or better. They were weak. They have more holes than swiss cheese.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,Ē JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    ďNot everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.Ē---- James Baldwin




  11. #2891
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    how do you explain sevy 2018 complete second half meltdown..actually even before the second half. you cannot depend on sevy until he proves he is dependable...
    Uh....injury. Duh.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,Ē JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    ďNot everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.Ē---- James Baldwin




  12. #2892
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    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    This was pretty funny.




    Dylan Hornik
    @_Hornik_

    1h
    Mets offseason:
    - New Owner
    - New President
    - New GM
    - Paid furloughed Citi Field workers
    - James McCann
    - Trevor May
    - Francisco Lindor
    - Carlos Carrasco
    - Offered Citi Field as a vaccination center

    Yankees offseason:
    - Greg Allen
    - Tyler Lyons
    - Made DJ LeMahieu upset
    Helps when your new owner is worth 15 billion dollars, is a lifelong fan of the team, and treats them like a hobby instead of his main line of work. I was reading Cohen made 1.7 billion dollars last year alone. That pretty much covers the money he paid for the team.

  13. #2893
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Unknowns? Seriously? One was arguably the most dominant pitcher in MLB in 2017-18 the other led the ML in win% in 2019. How can you even argue that the addition of both are not an upgrade? Question. In game two would you have been more comfortable with Sevy / German over a rookie Garcia? Not a knock on Garcia, just a reality. He's a rook with very limited ML experience thrown into a situ he may not have been completely prepared to handle.

    Using your exact logic, is it fair to say bringing in a top shelf FA pitcher is also an unknown? Can he pitch in NYC? The list is long. Start with Gray, Igawa, Wright, Contreras, Farnsworth, Rogers, Brown, Pavano, Whitson, I'm sure you get the gist. No guarantees, regardless of how highly touted or track record. Sevy and German have proven they can pitch and pitch effectively in NYC!

    Is the loss of Happ significant?

    One could also interpret your comment to mean Sox rotation is as good or better. They were weak. They have more holes than swiss cheese.
    They are all unknowns because we DONT KNOW what to expect from any of those pitchers after cole . You can bring up stats from 2 , 3 or 4 years ago but the fact remains no one knows what to expect from sevy or German . Heck itís been over 2 years since Monty had his tj surgery and we still donít know what to expect from him . And only someone looking for a fight would interpret someone questioning how much better the Yankees rotation is than the Red Sox rotation as someone saying the Red Sox rotation is better than the Yankees rotation . And comparing bringing in a top shelf starter who pitched the season before to two starters who havenít pitched in over a year , one of them coming back from TJ surgery is just stretching it to say the least .
    Last edited by Posada20; 01-12-2021 at 02:03 PM.

  14. #2894
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Helps when your new owner is worth 15 billion dollars, is a lifelong fan of the team, and treats them like a hobby instead of his main line of work. I was reading Cohen made 1.7 billion dollars last year alone. That pretty much covers the money he paid for the team.
    That bodes very well for Mets fans.
    He reminds me a bit of a quite version of Cuban. He's one of my favorite owners ever. Loves the game. Spends money. Loves his players.
    Do you think we could get him to buy the Jets and Knicks?



    Ignorance is bliss

  15. #2895
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    What realistic top shelf FA do u expect to.put up so much better numbers than Sevy? Realistic FA options because Bauer at what he's asking for or even at 25m plus AAV isn't realistic? So who's available that has ever put up numbers even similar across 2 seasons like Sevy did in 17-18 ? Kluber has but he been out pretty much as long as Sevy and is 10 yrs older. Tanaka and Paxton ? Unlikely

    Wanting great pitching is one thing, actually getting it and having it workout is another. We've struggled horribly trying to sign/ trade for pitching. If we're going to stop desperately searching for pitching every yr we have to start developing our own. Its pretty evident Hal isn't going to spend a ton of money, maybe the best option would be to embrace the kids this yr and see if we can't make it work this time? Yes the 08 experiment wasn't good but they had 12 plus yrs and a whole new pitching development team. Is it ideal, no but long term it might be the best option

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