2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

[cuzi]

The Yankees operated in mediocrity for years while making trades like the one they did with the Cubs to acquire pieces they are now building around. The Cardinals ONLY operate in mediocrity and hope for a miracle.

There is no remaining competitive for this team. Open your eyes. This team is dead after this year. None of the players have signed on the dotted line. The minor league system was drained to win now and it failed. There is no other option for the Cubs besides doing absolutely nothing and going with the 3 year status-quo that hasn't amounted to ****.

[CP_414]

The Yankees operated in mediocrity for years while making trades like the one they did with the Cubs to acquire pieces they are now building around. The Cardinals ONLY operate in mediocrity and hope for a miracle.

There is no remaining competitive for this team. Open your eyes. This team is dead after this year. None of the players have signed on the dotted line. The minor league system was drained to win now and it failed. There is no other option for the Cubs besides doing absolutely nothing and going with the 3 year status-quo that hasn't amounted to ****.

You are delusional. The Yankees last sub .500 season was 29 years ago. They made the playoffs 22 of the last 26 years. They had consecutive seasons missing the playoffs once since 1992-1993. Mediocrity for the Yankees is contention for everyone else. Meanwhile the Cubs need to strip down to scraps twice in a decade.

The Cards have had 1 losing season since 2000. They won 3 WS and made the playoffs 14 times since then. They made the playoffs 3 times and won the division twice during the best 6 year run the Cubs have had in 100+ years. What in the world are you talking about?

The Cubs 100% had a very available path to be very good in 2021. They are choosing the cheap way out.

[cuzi]

What was the available path to being very good in 2021. Do tell.

They havent been very good since 2017. They have survived on a pathetic NLC where there isn't a single team that wants to win, including the Cardinals you seem to think aren't cheap. If there's anything you should have learned about the Cubs last 2 trips to the playoffs its that they are not a very good team.

Go be a fan of the Cardinals and tell me just how not cheap they are. They wouldn't even give Albert Pujols, a first ballot HoFer, a competitive offer. Their offer was $44M less with $30M of that being deferred. Their entire FO's philosophy is being cheap.

[JD94]

The Yankees operated in mediocrity for years while making trades like the one they did with the Cubs to acquire pieces they are now building around. The Cardinals ONLY operate in mediocrity and hope for a miracle.

There is no remaining competitive for this team. Open your eyes. This team is dead after this year. None of the players have signed on the dotted line. The minor league system was drained to win now and it failed. There is no other option for the Cubs besides doing absolutely nothing and going with the 3 year status-quo that hasn't amounted to ****.

The point is is Ricketts didn’t pay up to keep the guys that were worth keeping. They chose not to go sign Harper when Harper had Chicago at the top of his wish list. As easily as the Dodgers got Mookie and the Mets got Lindor, we could have done that too. The fact is the Ricketts are too ******* cheap to make moves (like a large market team can and should make) to extend our window. We DO have talent in the system. It didn’t HAVE to turn out this way. I can’t put all the blame on Theo because his hands have been tied for the last 2 years. Ricketts wouldn’t open the checkbook (at all really) and Theo had to make the decision to keep the band together rather than tearing down. There were ways to stay competitive, extend some of our core, and extend our window.

[JD94]

What was the available path to being very good in 2021. Do tell.

They havent been very good since 2017. They have survived on a pathetic NLC where there isn't a single team that wants to win, including the Cardinals you seem to think aren't cheap. If there's anything you should have learned about the Cubs last 2 trips to the playoffs its that they are not a very good team.

Go be a fan of the Cardinals and tell me just how not cheap they are. They wouldn't even give Albert Pujols, a first ballot HoFer, a competitive offer. Their offer was $44M less with $30M of that being deferred. Their entire FO's philosophy is being cheap.

But they had a bigger offer on the table for Heyward than we did and also offered Price $200 mil? They went and got Goldschmidt and traded for Ozuna. They went and got Andrew Miller. It’s not like they are just living on their farm system and not making relatively big moves. They are willing to spend money. It’s not their fault Heyward took less money to come here.

[cuzi]

The point is is Ricketts didn’t pay up to keep the guys that were worth keeping.

Who? Just because no one has signed an extension doesn't mean that Ricketts wasn't willing to pay up. Who knows what kind of numbers have been thrown around in talks with Baez. I would imagine they are probably far apart because of the hype around Baez and how the hype doesn't really lineup with the performance outside of 1 season. Bryant's agent is Boras so there is nothing more to be said there. They already extended Rizzo once. Who know's if anything has been discussed with Contreras, I'm guessing not much given the trade rumors.

And they didn't choose not to go sign Harper. They were already over the thresh hold and they have a guy in RF who's worth probably 8-10M a year counting $23.5M against the "cap." Unless someone was willing to take on half of Heywards contract, Bryce wasn't going to be wearing a Cubs uniform.

[cuzi]

But they had a bigger offer on the table for Heyward than we did and also offered Price $200 mil? They went and got Goldschmidt and traded for Ozuna. They went and got Andrew Miller. It’s not like they are just living on their farm system and not making relatively big moves. They are willing to spend money. It’s not their fault Heyward took less money to come here.

Since 2017 the Cubs have had one of the top payrolls in the league, but they aren't willing to spend money? They are cheap?

[CP_414]

What was the available path to being very good in 2021. Do tell.

They havent been very good since 2017. They have survived on a pathetic NLC where there isn't a single team that wants to win, including the Cardinals you seem to think aren't cheap. If there's anything you should have learned about the Cubs last 2 trips to the playoffs its that they are not a very good team.

Go be a fan of the Cardinals and tell me just how not cheap they are. They wouldn't even give Albert Pujols, a first ballot HoFer, a competitive offer. Their offer was $44M less with $30M of that being deferred. Their entire FO's philosophy is being cheap.

There are countless paths to take the current roster and add $60-70 million and be very good. Undo the Darvish trade. Pick up a guy like Lynn or Musgrove relatively cheap via trade. Sign a couple contact bats like Brantley and LaStella or Wong. That’s about $50 million. Grab a value back end starter on a 1 year deal due to the crappy FA market. That’s easily a 90 win team.

I didn’t say anything about the cards being cheap or not. I said the cards don’t tank. They don’t. Tanking is not the only option to contend. All Mlb teams are a lot cheaper than they used to be when it comes to paying players. The Cubs are worse than average when you consider projected revenues vs player payroll. I was clear on that.

Lick those boots as much as you want but I’ll continue to be a fan of the Cubs and you can continue to be a fan of the Ricketts. Thanks for the advice though.

[cuzi]

I'm not a fan of the Ricketts. I'm simply not going to be completely ignorant and act like they dont spend money on the team.

[CP_414]

I'm not a fan of the Ricketts. I'm simply not going to be completely ignorant and act like they dont spend money on the team.

I’m not going to be ignorant and act like the Cubs tanking twice in a decade is acceptable.

The Ricketts spend on players sometimes. They do not consistently have a payroll needed to have a team that is consistently relevant. That’s the reality of their ownership.

[JD94]

Who? Just because no one has signed an extension doesn't mean that Ricketts wasn't willing to pay up. Who knows what kind of numbers have been thrown around in talks with Baez. I would imagine they are probably far apart because of the hype around Baez and how the hype doesn't really lineup with the performance outside of 1 season. Bryant's agent is Boras so there is nothing more to be said there. They already extended Rizzo once. Who know's if anything has been discussed with Contreras, I'm guessing not much given the trade rumors.

And they didn't choose not to go sign Harper. They were already over the thresh hold and they have a guy in RF who's worth probably 8-10M a year counting $23.5M against the "cap." Unless someone was willing to take on half of Heywards contract, Bryce wasn't going to be wearing a Cubs uniform.

Given what we know now, it seems more obvious that Ricketts were unwilling to actually dish out the money to extend these guys. I mean they’ve hardly spent a dime in 2 years. That doesn’t sound like a owner that was willing to give KB 200+ million.

And they extended Rizzo years ago when we were coming in the back end of our rebuild and had money to spend. Plus is was insanely team friendly for 7/41 with the 2 options to get it to 9/74. That hardly counts.

As far as Harper goes, there was no reason we still couldn’t have paid him. Ricketts chose the cheap route to avoid a minimal penalty of being over the LT.

Being over the LT with Kershaw’s contract, and Jansen’s contract, Pollack’s contract, taking on Price’s contract, and Bellinger and Seager making significant money in arbitration didn’t stop the Dodgers from giving Betts $365 mil. And here they are still going after Bauer.

Not to mention there were different ways to go about making everything work. If Theo would have had full financial support (realistically speaking) from Ricketts to go get a Harper and or trade for better players under control, it’s impossible to know what he could have done to make the money work. Maybe he attaches a prospect to Heyward to get out of the majority of that contract. Maybe he doesn’t do the Kimbrel deal if our financial situation was different. We also get in on the mid-tier free agents along the way that actually help, instead of Daniel Descalso and the however many relievers we gave a minor league contract with a ST invite to because we were too “broke” to pay a decent reliever. There were tons of other paths we could have taken, which could have made this team look extremely different and extending our competitive window.

Ricketts obviously decided he was done fishing out the money needed to continue improving our baseball team shortly after we won the World Series and after he WAY over spent in buying up property around Wrigley and the hotel and all that.

[cuzi]

I’m not going to be ignorant and act like the Cubs tanking twice in a decade is acceptable.

The Ricketts spend on players sometimes. They do not consistently have a payroll needed to have a team that is consistently relevant. That’s the reality of their ownership.

The reality of their ownership is that Theo came in and said he was going to tear it down and build by rebuilding the minor league system. He did that. They won the WS. Then he switched completely to win now after they already won. He depleted the system. He switched from drafting position players and trading them for pitchers to drafting pitchers and trying to develop them, something he is known for being absolutely terrible at. Theo left with not a lot of options to choose from. Pretty similar to how he left the Red Sox who had to basically pay the Dodgers to take all of their bad contracts by throwing in Gonzalez.

[CP_414]

The reality of their ownership is that Theo came in and said he was going to tear it down and build by rebuilding the minor league system. He did that. They won the WS. Then he switched completely to win now after they already won. He depleted the system. He switched from drafting position players and trading them for pitchers to drafting pitchers and trying to develop them, something he is known for being absolutely terrible at. Theo left with not a lot of options to choose from. Pretty similar to how he left the Red Sox who had to basically pay the Dodgers to take all of their bad contracts by throwing in Gonzalez.

Nope. The Ricketts said the payrolls prior to Theo were “unsustainable.” The tanking was going to happen no matter who got Theo’s job. It just would have been done worse if basically anyone else got the job.

The Ricketts decided they needed to cut payroll. Theo tanked and built a champion. The Ricketts said the money would be there to add when they were winning. Then they went years when they were winning without adding any significant outside pieces. Now they had the option to continue winning and the money is gone again and the Ricketts are not giving Jed a competitive payroll. Theo even gave them back $10 million. So now Jed is tanking again but this time teams aren’t giving up top prospects for players via trade so they haven’t picked up a single top prospect this offseason. Maybe one or two of the guys they acquired will become a top prospect in a few years. Let’s hope that happens, but the priority is on moving money, not acquiring talent.

The farm system is below average but not horrible. They have some solid pieces. It’s a lot better than it was when Theo got here. They should have about $150 million in payroll room opening up for 2022, but they don’t. The money is the biggest piece that isn’t there.

The Red Sox won a World Series a couple of years after Theo left with a team built around players he brought to Boston. Then they won another World Series behind a lot of the same players a few years later. What a disaster he left them in Boston. Lol.

[cuzi]

Ya they didnt add anything. Jon Lester didnt happen. Dexter Fowler didnt happen. Ben Zobrist didnt happen. Jason Heyward didnt happen. Yu Darvish didnt happen.

If only the Ricketts spent money to add to the roster so the Cubs could have won a WS.

[Stratos]

Shocking that Theo left when he did, I bet he even forfeited a decent chunk of his salary to get out of this mess.

Theo immediately after the season ended: I expect to finish out my contract.

Ricketts: Theo I want to cut the payroll in half and sell everybody and we'll be crap next year

Theo: I'm out.