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  1. #4396
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    CP-414, not quite as dramatic as you indicated, revenues up by a factor of 2.47 instead of 3 while payroll up by a factor of 1.09 instead of 1.0) but you point is taken.
    I mean if we factor in that they paid $34 mil in tax in 05 and $7 mil in tax in 19, the total player payroll actually went down between those 2 years.

    Regardless, theyíve got money. They just donít spend like they did when the boss was in charge. He had his flaws, but he wanted to win. Owners today arenít the same.
    Last edited by CP_414; 02-19-2021 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #4397
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    That was only after they achieved a "reset" by getting under the tax threshhold for the first time in many years in 2018 I believe. While what you say about George's sons beiing different from the ol'man is certainly true, George never had to deal with the uncertainties brought about by Covid last year and this. If Yanks knew there would not be severe limits set on fan attendance this year, spending by Yanks ( and most teams) would have gone way up, I really believe.
    Last edited by Stevemil505; 02-19-2021 at 07:52 PM.

  3. #4398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    That was only after they achieved a "reset" by getting under the tax threshhold for the first time in many years in 2018 I believe. While what you say about George's sons beiing different from the ol'man is certainly true, George never had to deal with the uncertainties brought about by Covid last year and this. If Yanks knew there would not be severe limits set on fan attendance this year, spending by Yanks ( and most teams) would have gone way up, I really believe.
    They had lux tax multipliers back in 2005 too. They just kept spending.

  4. #4399
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    Even with that spending it only got them one more WS win (2009), and were the luxtax multipliers as severe back then ?( I don't remember.) Just saw 2 things , Yanks just agreed to $4 mill deal with Gardner, that should put them at brink of lux tax threshold, and Dr Faucci cautiously optimistic that baseball may be able to get in a full season, but probably not with fans sitting next to each other, seating limited to 50% maybe. Like I said, lots of uncertainty.
    Last edited by Stevemil505; 02-19-2021 at 08:35 PM.

  5. #4400
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    Even with that spending it only got them one more WS win (2009), and were the luxtax multipliers as severe back then ?( I don't remember.) Just saw 2 things , Yanks just agreed to $4 mill deal with Gardner, that should put them at brink of lux tax threshold, and Dr Faucci cautiously optimistic that baseball may be able to get in a full season, but probably not with fans sitting next to each other, seating limited to 50% maybe. Like I said, lots of uncertainty.
    Not sure what that has to do with anything related to Tatis or Jacoby being ďan anchorĒ or yankee spending pre and post Steinbrennerís death.

    2019 was pre Covid. 2005 was precovid. Jacoby isnít a yankee anymore. What does Covid have to do with anything we talked about?

    A team would need to have a $340 million payroll in 2021 to be the same % over the tax line as the Yankees were in 2005. Teams donít spend on players like they used to.
    Last edited by CP_414; 02-19-2021 at 09:14 PM.

  6. #4401
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
    Love the Padres and the tatis deal... thatís how you should move a young talent thru the majors and handle him.

    This control BS and keeping guys out of the majors is bad for baseball. The next cba things need to change to get young talent on big league teams ASAP.
    A Fernando Tatis Jr mega contract signing event shouldnít pass without mentioning the trade that the Padres made to acquire him. $340M went to a player who was once traded for a guy who went on to achieve the worst pitching season out of all the qualifying starters in 5 years. Thatís terrible!

    What makes the trade even more tragic (I know, poor, poor White Sox!) is that Tatis Jr was ranked number 2 on Baseball America and MLB Pipeline. So he didnít just explode out of the blue. James Shields was 34 years old and the White Sox had just come off 86 losses and nowhere close to contending for years. They had no reason to make that trade.

  7. #4402
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    CP 414, what does Covid have to do with team spending? It didn't have much if anything to do with 2019 or even 2020 spending, but it has a lot to do with team spending in 2021. Before Covid, each team had a pretty good ideas how many butts they could count on putting in their seats before the season started, say + or - 200k. I don't think any team expected their home attendance last year to be zero. And this year Yankee attendence could be anywhere from 0 to almost 4 million. For the Cubs it could be anywhere between 0 and just over 3 million. That uncertainty makes it pretty difficult to construct a budget even with tv $s included. Uncertainty produces caution.

  8. #4403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    CP 414, what does Covid have to do with team spending? It didn't have much if anything to do with 2019 or even 2020 spending, but it has a lot to do with team spending in 2021. Before Covid, each team had a pretty good ideas how many butts they could count on putting in their seats before the season started, say + or - 200k. I don't think any team expected their home attendance last year to be zero. And this year Yankee attendence could be anywhere from 0 to almost 4 million. For the Cubs it could be anywhere between 0 and just over 3 million. That uncertainty makes it pretty difficult to construct a budget even with tv $s included. Uncertainty produces caution.
    I mean, great, but that has nothing to do with anything we talked about.

  9. #4404
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    Me-Uncertainty produces caution. You- Teams don't spend on players like they used to. If you don't see that those two statements are related, there's no point in contining this thread.

  10. #4405
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Yankees 2005 estimated revenue - 277 million
    Yankees 2005 player payroll - 207.1 million

    Yankees 2019 estimated revenue - 683 million
    Yankees 2019 player payroll - 225.9 million.

    Annual revenues have nearly tripled and payroll is mostly the same. They are fine. They can pay the tax. Jacoby wasnít an anchor. Jacoby was an excuse. George Steinbrenner died. Thatís the big difference with the Yankees.
    Agree. It's not that they can't pay it's that they don't have to. If you can make the playoffs and fill the stands at $210 mil why spend $250? These are profit-maximizing businesses like any other.

  11. #4406
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    Me-Uncertainty produces caution. You- Teams don't spend on players like they used to. If you don't see that those two statements are related, there's no point in contining this thread.
    More like:
    Me - the Tatis deal is a good risk for the Padres

    You - Jacoby Ellsburyís contract was an anchor for the Yankees.

    Me - thatís a weird take that has nothing to do with Tatis, but Ellsbury really wasnít an anchor. The Yankees have a ton of money to spend regardless. Look at how much more they spent in 2005 compared to revenues than they did in 2019.

    You - Covid causes financial uncertainty.

    Me - ok.
    Last edited by CP_414; 02-20-2021 at 12:31 AM.

  12. #4407
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Agree. It's not that they can't pay it's that they don't have to. If you can make the playoffs and fill the stands at $210 mil why spend $250? These are profit-maximizing businesses like any other.
    Right. George Steinbrenner didnít have to spend like that either. He did it because he gave a **** about winning above all else. There are no owners like him anymore. There were no owners like him at the time either.

    He was deeply flawed but give me that guy as my favorite teams owner every time.

  13. #4408
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread


    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  14. #4409
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    Good!

  15. #4410
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Right. George Steinbrenner didnít have to spend like that either. He did it because he gave a **** about winning above all else. There are no owners like him anymore. There were no owners like him at the time either.

    He was deeply flawed but give me that guy as my favorite teams owner every time.
    *Steve Cohen has entered the chat* (maybe, we will see)

    https://twitter.com/anthonydicomo/st...545901059?s=21

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