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  1. #4276
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Mooney and Sharma both say the Cubs have interest in 2B Eric Sogard.

    I know a couple of you mentioned him, so there could be something there

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  2. #4277
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Mooney and Sharma both say the Cubs have interest in 2B Eric Sogard.

    I know a couple of you mentioned him, so there could be something there
    Yay.........

  3. #4278
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    https://twitter.com/jesserogersespn/...909108224?s=21

    Jefress back ?


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

  4. #4279
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    https://twitter.com/sahadevsharma/st...258737156?s=21
    Looks like Wick will be behind the rest at the start


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

  5. #4280
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    https://twitter.com/jesserogersespn/...292657154?s=21


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

  6. #4281
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    https://twitter.com/jesserogersespn/...475756032?s=21


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

  7. #4282
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    https://twitter.com/BleacherNation/s...329660422?s=19




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  8. #4283
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    https://twitter.com/Cubs_Live/status...191930884?s=19

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  9. #4284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    https://twitter.com/sahadevsharma/st...258737156?s=21
    Looks like Wick will be behind the rest at the start


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
    Great...

  10. #4285
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Mooney and Sharma both say the Cubs have interest in 2B Eric Sogard.

    I know a couple of you mentioned him, so there could be something there
    Career .655 OPS. Negative WAR in 2 of last 3 seasons. Can't hit righties or lefties, career splits are identical. His EV sucks, he doesn't barrel any balls, and hard hit % sucks. Defense is blah. He's basically garbage.

  11. #4286
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I know you aren't necessarily defending them, but when we give them the excuse of "no fans were in the stands" they get an excuse they don't deserve. Again, especially without opening up books to prove it. If they want anyone to care about their losses in 2020, they should be showing how much they have made, both in liquid cash and revenues stemming from owning a baseball team in all previous years. Until that moment (which is never), I will not bestow an excuse of "no fans were in the stands".
    All i'm saying is if a team loses a ton of revenue the year before and will this year, i wouldn't expect the payroll to remain the same.

    Even if the Cubs normally make a lot of money, which they do, it's not like all that money sits in a bank account. Ricketts has invested the money in other things, like real estate around Wrigley, and who knows what the financial situation is for those, maybe some rents and mortgage payments from those tenets have been missed due to COVID. I really don't know.

    I think Ricketts has been cheap this year, and it's made me PO'd. I wouldn't say he's cheap overall looking at the last 10 years. He's sunk a ton of money into the Cubs and Wrigley/Wrigleyville. But a lot of that has been for his own wallet, which really makes me PO'd. Every time I see that big electronic scoreboard in LF I want to rip it down and smash it. It's just there to show ads. They've destroyed Wrigley, a historic landmark, and pimped it for profit, and the politicians let him because i'm sure he donates lots of money to their coffers.

    On the other hand, when we were winning he never hesitated to give Theo the money needed to go out and get that extra guy. He turned the Cubs into an elite winning franchise for the first time in most fans' lifetimes. When I think cheap, I think of the Tribune company that until the early 2000's left the Cubs to rot for decades while fans sold out Wrigley. I remember going to Wrigley in the 90's and my dad saying how badly the stadium needed a new coat of paint. The old paint was rotten and chipping off metal beams and seats. They wouldn't even pay for paint lol. Ricketts has at least invested heavily into Wrigley Field to make it state-of-the-art. So I see your side, but also can't totally demonize the man.

    Anyways, it is what it is. At least our division sucks so we'll compete.
    Last edited by Stratos; 02-16-2021 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #4287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    All i'm saying is if a team loses a ton of revenue the year before and will this year, i wouldn't expect the payroll to remain the same.

    Even if the Cubs normally make a lot of money, which they do, it's not like all that money sits in a bank account. Ricketts has invested the money in other things, like real estate around Wrigley, and who knows what the financial situation is for those, maybe some rents and mortgage payments from those tenets have been missed due to COVID. I really don't know.

    I think Ricketts has been cheap this year, and it's made me PO'd. I wouldn't say he's cheap overall looking at the last 10 years. He's sunk a ton of money into the Cubs and Wrigley/Wrigleyville. But a lot of that has been for his own wallet, which really makes me PO'd. Every time I see that big electronic scoreboard in LF I want to rip it down and smash it. It's just there to show ads. They've destroyed Wrigley, a historic landmark, and pimped it for profit, and the politicians let him because i'm sure he donates lots of money to their coffers.

    On the other hand, when we were winning he never hesitated to give Theo the money needed to go out and get that extra guy. He turned the Cubs into an elite winning franchise for the first time in most fans' lifetimes. When I think cheap, I think of the Tribune company that until the early 2000's left the Cubs to rot for decades while fans sold out Wrigley. I remember going to Wrigley in the 90's and my dad saying how badly the stadium needed a new coat of paint. The old paint was rotten and chipping off metal beams and seats. They wouldn't even pay for paint lol. Ricketts has at least invested heavily into Wrigley Field to make it state-of-the-art. So I see your side, but also can't totally demonize the man.

    Anyways, it is what it is. At least our division sucks so we'll compete.
    Why would we expect it? If Tom Ricketts has made significantly more over the decade than he's lost (I think it's safe to assume that), than yeah, he shouldn't be lowering payroll because of one bad year. He won't open the books. I have no idea how much he's made. I have an expectation that the Cubs spend money like top MLB market team should. They have $140m current payroll for the 40 man in guaranteed money. That's pathetic for a team not relying on pre-arb contracts who just won the division. It's the first bad year of, well, almost any owner's time owning a team. The pandemic is an excuse, not an actual reason to not spend. Don't buy into it, dont give the excuse any power. It's ********.

    Secondly, yes, he is cheap. We were told that they cut spending originally to redo the organization, then we'd consistently spend when we were winning. They didn't spend in 2019. They didn't spend in 2020. They haven't spent before 2021. They have had winning years all of those seasons and made the playoffs in 2018 and 2020. Both following offseasons the team went "whoopsies, no more monies for you!". That's ****ing cheap. The Dodgers win the damn WS and go add the best SP on the market during a pandemic. The Cubs can't spend money on an actual bench the year after they tie for the division. I will hold them to the standard of being the best. I'm not lowering my expectations just because other teams act this way. Just because other owners are cheap and won't go over the luxury tax is not an excuse for the Cubs to. It's like telling the officer you were speeding because the car in front of you, was also speeding. It doesn't matter, the speed limit is the speed limit. The same goes for my expectations for the Cubs. I don't care what others do or don't.

    Simply put, being "better than the Tribune" which so many want to point to is not a barometer. They should easily be putting up the 3rd highest payroll almost every single season.

    I will 100% demonize the man. He's a cheap ****. Being better than the "worst" is not a barometer I'm accepting of. Is he any worse than almost any ownership group in the MLB? Maybe not. But he's also no better. They're all cheap ****s.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-16-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  13. #4288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Career .655 OPS. Negative WAR in 2 of last 3 seasons. Can't hit righties or lefties, career splits are identical. His EV sucks, he doesn't barrel any balls, and hard hit % sucks. Defense is blah. He's basically garbage.
    Sounds like a Cub already.

  14. #4289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seyton View Post
    Sounds like a Cub already.
    Definitely a Cubs Second baseman of the last few years.

  15. #4290
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    2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    All i'm saying is if a team loses a ton of revenue the year before and will this year, i wouldn't expect the payroll to remain the same.
    Ok. What about when revenue goes up? Then should we expect the payroll to go up? That certainly hasnít always been the case with this ownership either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Even if the Cubs normally make a lot of money, which they do, it's not like all that money sits in a bank account. Ricketts has invested the money in other things, like real estate around Wrigley, and who knows what the financial situation is for those, maybe some rents and mortgage payments from those tenets have been missed due to COVID. I really don't know.
    Sure, they always have money for investments that make the family money. Iím sure they arenít missing any payments. They are adding more of those investments this offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    I think Ricketts has been cheap this year, and it's made me PO'd. I wouldn't say he's cheap overall looking at the last 10 years. He's sunk a ton of money into the Cubs and Wrigley/Wrigleyville. But a lot of that has been for his own wallet, which really makes me PO'd.
    You wouldnít say they have been cheap over the past 10 years? Iím just going to use opening day payrolls for 2012-2017 because itís easier to find the data quick. 2018-2021 is total cash spending.
    Hereís how the Cubs compare to the league in Mlb player spending:
    15th, 14th, 23rd, 13th, 6th, 8th, 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 10th
    Iím not doing the math for every team but Iíd wager that puts the Cubs around 8th-10th in overall spending in the last decade at best. Just on average itís about 10th per season, but when you consider teams that had more extreme swings they might rank a little better than 10th in overall spending.

    In terms of revenue projections the best we have are the Forbes estimates since owners keep the books private. Iím not going through each year but Iíll grab a few. In 2012 the Cubs were 4th in mlb in estimated revenues. In 2013 Forbes said they were the most profitable organization in baseball (4th in revenues). In 2016 they had the 4th highest projected revenues. In 2019 they had the 4th highest projected revenues.

    So if they are spending in the 8th-10th range over a decade and they are a top 5 revenue organization every year, doesnít that make them cheap when it comes to spending on players?

    In terms of spending on the ballpark, like you said a lot of it is for their own profit and non baseball revenues. That doesnít mean anything to me. I donít care how much they spent on a hotel. I donít care how much they spend on a sportsbook. It sounds like they got a 9 figure federal tax credit for Wrigley upgrades and they got $150 mil from minority investors in the team. When it comes to signing baseball players the Cubs owners have been more cheap than most owners when you consider payroll vs revenues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Every time I see that big electronic scoreboard in LF I want to rip it down and smash it. It's just there to show ads. They've destroyed Wrigley, a historic landmark, and pimped it for profit, and the politicians let him because i'm sure he donates lots of money to their coffers.
    I agree. Itís ugly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    On the other hand, when we were winning he never hesitated to give Theo the money needed to go out and get that extra guy. He turned the Cubs into an elite winning franchise for the first time in most fans' lifetimes. When I think cheap, I think of the Tribune company that until the early 2000's left the Cubs to rot for decades while fans sold out Wrigley. I remember going to Wrigley in the 90's and my dad saying how badly the stadium needed a new coat of paint. The old paint was rotten and chipping off metal beams and seats. They wouldn't even pay for paint lol. Ricketts has at least invested heavily into Wrigley Field to make it state-of-the-art. So I see your side, but also can't totally demonize the man.
    Thatís an awfully low bar. Also did he ďnever hesitate to give Theo more money when they were winning? It seemed like a hell of a lot of hesitation on adding any new money the last few offseasons. Ricketts hired Theo. Theo turned the Cubs into winners. Ricketts gets a little credit by extension but Ricketts credit should be ďTheo fell into his lap and he didnít **** it up.Ē

    Even if we use that low bar of the 2000s Cubs payrolls from 01-08, this was their rank in payroll: 15th, 12th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 7th, 8th, 7th. Itís not that different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Anyways, it is what it is. At least our division sucks so we'll compete.
    Probably for most of the season.
    Last edited by CP_414; 02-16-2021 at 07:10 PM.

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