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  1. #4051
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooL D/R/T View Post
    That Joc Perderson players tribune article was a cool read. Iíll be rooting for him here.
    Heís a very good guy. Kinda sucks the team blows now because heíd fit right in with some of our contending teams of the past 5 years.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #4052
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    So dumb

    The Dodgers finally wised up and gave him just 10 PA vs LHP last year.

    In 2019 he got 50 and was thoroughly humiliated. 1 walk and 15 Ks, 2 XBH

    Why in the world would you promise him that
    Because why not? Cubs are not playing for anything in 2021, and should Joc shows life against LHP he becomes a very good trade chip. If he doesn't, he'll take his talents to another team. So why not take the gamble.
    Screw sabermetics.

  3. #4053
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  4. #4054
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    Jul 2018
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    Does it really matter much for this season?
    In a season they're not expected to win much, does it matter if Joc Pederson gets some extra ABs playing against LHers over getting Ervin those ABs.

    I mean, I'm sure most of his rest days will be against LHers anyways

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  5. #4055
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    812
    I have no idea why the A's just agreed to take on Elvis Andrus' contract (now 3 years and a total of $43 million assuming Andrus exercises his third year option) in exchange for 1 year / $16.5 million of Khris Davis. That is bizarre to me. Not too familiar with the prospects involved but from a cursory glance doesn't seem like the A's did too well there either.

    Edit: Rangers are sending $13.5 million, but still. Why not just deal with KD for the year and regroup with next years SS crop?
    Last edited by cubs1423; 02-06-2021 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #4056
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    So dumb

    The Dodgers finally wised up and gave him just 10 PA vs LHP last year.

    In 2019 he got 50 and was thoroughly humiliated. 1 walk and 15 Ks, 2 XBH

    Why in the world would you promise him that
    Pederson actually hit lefties in the minors. The Dodgers never really gave him the opportunity to do it on a regular basis when he was called up.

    Rizzo was once terrible at hitting lefties too.

  7. #4057
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuzi View Post
    Pederson actually hit lefties in the minors. The Dodgers never really gave him the opportunity to do it on a regular basis when he was called up.

    Rizzo was once terrible at hitting lefties too.
    Anthony Rizzo had troubles hitting LHP when he was like, 24. He's completely changed his swing and his approach over years. Joc Pederson turns 29 and has nearly 400 PA's against LHP. He has a 59 wRC+. There's little upside to thinking he's going to get better against LHP. Even if consistent PA's makes him 25% better...he's still awful against LHP.

    I think there's a very good reason the Dodgers said nearly immediately "hey, maybe this guy shouldn't ever play against LHP" and I would expect his futility against LHP extended well before he made the MLB. It's probably fair to say he's not getting good enough against LHP to where he'll be worth ever playing against LHP. Maybe the Cubs have a fix for it...but it kind of sounds like the Cubs said "Hey you can play against LHP" and this is one of the ways the Cubs got Pederson to sign here and not, say, the White Sox (who were also in). Pederson probably sees this as his best bet on gaining a big long term deal next off season. But I don't think we'll look back on the season and say "Hey, he really could hit LHP!"

  8. #4058
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Anthony Rizzo had troubles hitting LHP when he was like, 24. He's completely changed his swing and his approach over years. Joc Pederson turns 29 and has nearly 400 PA's against LHP. He has a 59 wRC+. There's little upside to thinking he's going to get better against LHP. Even if consistent PA's makes him 25% better...he's still awful against LHP.

    I think there's a very good reason the Dodgers said nearly immediately "hey, maybe this guy shouldn't ever play against LHP" and I would expect his futility against LHP extended well before he made the MLB. It's probably fair to say he's not getting good enough against LHP to where he'll be worth ever playing against LHP. Maybe the Cubs have a fix for it...but it kind of sounds like the Cubs said "Hey you can play against LHP" and this is one of the ways the Cubs got Pederson to sign here and not, say, the White Sox (who were also in). Pederson probably sees this as his best bet on gaining a big long term deal next off season. But I don't think we'll look back on the season and say "Hey, he really could hit LHP!"
    I wouldnt expect someone to be good at something they rarely get to do.

    If you would expect that his struggles against LHP extended long before he made the MLB you would be wrong. The year he was called up he had a 1.020 OPS in AAA against LHP in 164 ABs with 14 HRs.

  9. #4059
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuzi View Post
    I wouldnt expect someone to be good at something they rarely get to do.

    If you would expect that his struggles against LHP extended long before he made the MLB you would be wrong. The year he was called up he had a 1.020 OPS in AAA against LHP in 164 ABs with 14 HRs.
    A 59 wRC+ isn't just rust. He's earned that. His best run in the majors against LHP came in 2015 when he still put up a sub .300 wOBA and a 90 wRC+. He did so due to a 21% FB/HR%, despite doubling his soft contact vs RHP (he hit more HR/FB against LHP that year). That was pretty unsustainable for as little good contact as the man was making.

    If you want to believe the Dodgers, one of the best run organizations in baseball just randomly decided that he wasn't going to hit against LHP and that his issue is "rust", be my guest. I won't stop you. But I think it's a pretty poor bet that the 29 year old with a sub 60 wRC+ against LHP is probably just really bad against LHP. I think he'll do better than a 59 wRC+ given an extended run. But even with a larger sample, we're probably looking at an wRC+ in the 80s. That's not a worthwhile gain for a someone to be an every day player. He's almost assuredly still going to be a player a good team platoons.

  10. #4060
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    A 59 wRC+ isn't just rust. He's earned that. His best run in the majors against LHP came in 2015 when he still put up a sub .300 wOBA and a 90 wRC+. He did so due to a 21% FB/HR%, despite doubling his soft contact vs RHP (he hit more HR/FB against LHP that year). That was pretty unsustainable for as little good contact as the man was making.

    If you want to believe the Dodgers, one of the best run organizations in baseball just randomly decided that he wasn't going to hit against LHP and that his issue is "rust", be my guest. I won't stop you. But I think it's a pretty poor bet that the 29 year old with a sub 60 wRC+ against LHP is probably just really bad against LHP. I think he'll do better than a 59 wRC+ given an extended run. But even with a larger sample, we're probably looking at an wRC+ in the 80s. That's not a worthwhile gain for a someone to be an every day player. He's almost assuredly still going to be a player a good team platoons.
    If you want to believe the Dodgers actually decided to work with him on LHP instead of just saying we're deep and going to have him platoon his entire career because we are trying to win then I wont stop you.

    Rizzo was terrible for 3 years against LHP but was on teams not competing so he got to play. Joc has been terrible against LHP but was on a team trying to win and deep so he's only sporadically seen LHP his entire career in the majors. Joc hit lefties as good if not better than righties in the minors outside of AA.

    I'm not saying he's going to be good against LHP on the Cubs but to sit here and act like he's actually gotten the opportunity to actively hit LHP when he's been a platoon bat on the Dodgers ever since he was called up is just a terrible take.

  11. #4061
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    Even if heís average for a lefty vs lefties thatís terrible. Rizzo has been an outlier for lefty/lefty matchups overall. Heís had some pretty serious regression over the last few years vs lefties too.

    Over the last 3 years lefties collectively have an 85 wRC+ vs left handed pitching. Joc has been considerably worse than average when heís gotten an opportunity to face lefties. Running out an outfield of Joc, Happ, and Heyward vs LHP would be hilariously bad.

    If itís just a matter of them not trying to win so it doesnít matter who they play, then whatever, but that OF vs lefties would be horrendous.

  12. #4062
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
    Dodgers can handle bad contracts. Cubs canít. Wont change anything the dodgers do in future
    Well, paying $40 and 45 million dollars in one season for a pitcher worth about 25 mil is their right. If they want to burn 20 million dollars this is great news for the Cubs, it means they can't spend that $20 mil on actual value that will make the team even better. That's 20 million less they can spend on players the Cubs could be bidding on next winter too.

    $45 mil is like 1/4 or 1/5 the payroll of most teams...for a 4 WAR player. It is insane. I'm not surprised the Mets were in the ballpark, they have decades of burning money like this, but i'm surprised with the Dodgers. The real winners here are Bauer and his agent.

    George Springer was arguably the better FA and got 25 mil per year. Security costs a lot of money these days. Ask Rizzo and Kyle Hendricks.

  13. #4063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Well, paying $40 and 45 million dollars in one season for a pitcher worth about 25 mil is their right. If they want to burn 20 million dollars this is great news for the Cubs, it means they can't spend that $20 mil on actual value that will make the team even better. That's 20 million less they can spend on players the Cubs could be bidding on next winter too.

    $45 mil is like 1/4 or 1/5 the payroll of most teams...for a 4 WAR player. It is insane. I'm not surprised the Mets were in the ballpark, they have decades of burning money like this, but i'm surprised with the Dodgers. The real winners here are Bauer and his agent.

    George Springer was arguably the better FA and got 25 mil per year. Security costs a lot of money these days. Ask Rizzo and Kyle Hendricks.
    Heís been a 5.3 fWAR/per full season guy over the last 3 years and heís 30 years old coming off a Cy season.

    Springer got a better deal by going long term. He could have got a similar AAV if he took a 3 year deal but he took 6 years as a 31 year old CF.

  14. #4064
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuzi View Post
    If you want to believe the Dodgers actually decided to work with him on LHP instead of just saying we're deep and going to have him platoon his entire career because we are trying to win then I wont stop you.

    Rizzo was terrible for 3 years against LHP but was on teams not competing so he got to play. Joc has been terrible against LHP but was on a team trying to win and deep so he's only sporadically seen LHP his entire career in the majors. Joc hit lefties as good if not better than righties in the minors outside of AA.

    I'm not saying he's going to be good against LHP on the Cubs but to sit here and act like he's actually gotten the opportunity to actively hit LHP when he's been a platoon bat on the Dodgers ever since he was called up is just a terrible take.
    When did I "act like he got the opportunity"? You're absolutely bastardizing what I said, and moving the goal posts. I said "he sucks against LHP". I didn't say the Dodgers gave him a large sample size, and never suggested that. I did suggest that the Dodgers are a really well run organization and probably, for good reason, decided that he didn't need to be out there against LHP (as stated by CP, LHH don't hit LHP well at all, and Pederson wasn't showing any real ability to do so, even with his best 90 wRC+ season. It wasn't like he was forcing anyone's hand).

    Given the chance, it's still very probable that he's going to be bad against LHP. There's little reason the Cubs should give him any PA's against LHP. That was my original point. That point still stands. If the Cubs want to run him out there, we should all expect he's going to be bad at it. It's not going to go well. The Cubs don't seem to care about winning, so whatever, but there's almost no benefit for the Cubs to run Pederson out every day.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-06-2021 at 06:59 PM.

  15. #4065
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    When did I "act like he got the opportunity"? You're absolutely bastardizing what I said, and moving the goal posts. I said "he sucks against LHP". I didn't say the Dodgers gave him a large sample size, and never suggested that. I did suggest that the Dodgers are a really well run organization and probably, for good reason, decided that he didn't need to be out there against LHP (as stated by CP, LHH don't hit LHP well at all, and Pederson wasn't showing any real ability to do so, even with his best 90 wRC+ season. It wasn't like he was forcing anyone's hand).

    Given the chance, it's still very probable that he's going to be bad against LHP. There's little reason the Cubs should give him any PA's against LHP. That was my original point. That point still stands. If the Cubs want to run him out there, we should all expect he's going to be bad at it. It's not going to go well. The Cubs don't seem to care about winning, so whatever, but there's almost no benefit for the Cubs to run Pederson out every day.
    I'm not moving any goal posts here, bud.

    You wrongly assumed that Pederson's issues against LHP started long before he was called up to the majors. The fact is he hit lefties very well in the minors and he simply hasnt gotten the chance to ever consistently face them in the majors because of the team hes played for and how stacked they have been. There's no reason to let Pederson face lefties simply because they dont have to let him face lefties. If Rizzo started his career on the Dodgers he too would probably be a career platoon bat.

    I'm not expecting the world out of Pederson against lefties but he is going to be hitting against them on the Cubs. Along with Happ and Heyward. The Cubs arent deep like the Dodgers and unless they want to continue to dick around with Bryant in the outfield they dont have better options.

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