2020 Chicago Cubs Offseason Thread

[Bluefire]

Sounds like 2021 will be it for Albert Pujols.

[Stratos]

Sounds like 2021 will be it for Albert Pujols.

Should have retired 3-4 years ago. How is he still getting AB's? Now it just looks like he's trying to run up his career stat totals.

[JHBulls]

Should have retired 3-4 years ago. How is he still getting AB's? Now it just looks like he's trying to run up his career stat totals.

His bank account would have been $70M lighter if he retired 3 years ago and another $30M lighter if he retired now rather than end of 2021. As much as he isn’t a good Baseball player anymore, he’s not an idiot.

[Stratos]

His bank account would have been $70M lighter if he retired 3 years ago and another $30M lighter if he retired now rather than end of 2021. As much as he isn’t a good Baseball player anymore, he’s not an idiot.

Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.

[1908_Cubs]

Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.

Pujols has probably the most stark decline of any HoF player. Dan Szymborski (inventor of ZiPS) did a great breakdown of it in the spring. Basically, his decline was basically unprecedented for both the contract (they neither worked on a mutual buyout) and his play.

His career was so weird.

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[JHBulls]

Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.

As much as Pujols was a great player as a Cardinal, he was also 32 years old when he started his 10 year contract as an Angel in 2012. That contract was bound to go to **** halfway through, let alone sooner. Absolutely nutty.

[chibears55]

Pujols a great example of paying a player after his prime years, for past performance

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[thawv]

Pujols a great example of paying a player after his prime years, for past performance

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Couple that with his real age being a question mark when he signed, it's a very bad deal.

[btd]

Couple that with his real age being a question mark when he signed, it's a very bad deal.

Is there any speculation about PED use with him?

[CubsRule08]

Is there any speculation about PED use with him?

I’m sure there has been speculation from some, but honestly I don’t think he’s a PED user.

[thawv]

Is there any speculation about PED use with him?

Although there's no way to prove it, in my opinion, it's a slam dunk that he did. Steroids followed LaRussa from Oak to Stl. I read that it was speculated that 2000 players were using during the steroid era. I think he started in his rookie year.

[NoChiInChamp]

As much as Pujols was a great player as a Cardinal, he was also 32 years old when he started his 10 year contract as an Angel in 2012. That contract was bound to go to **** halfway through, let alone sooner. Absolutely nutty.

The Angels knew they were going to be underwater on the latter half of the deal. It's the same reasoning people always use with big pitcher contracts. The bad break was Pujols becoming unusable as a 1B/DH as quickly as he did. His first year was fine enough. He missed time the second year and rebounded a little bit the third year. But halfway through he became a sub-replacement level player. I don't think anyone saw that happening, even if they weren't willing to give him a 10 year deal.

[btd]

The Angels knew they were going to be underwater on the latter half of the deal. It's the same reasoning people always use with big pitcher contracts. The bad break was Pujols becoming unusable as a 1B/DH as quickly as he did. His first year was fine enough. He missed time the second year and rebounded a little bit the third year. But halfway through he became a sub-replacement level player. I don't think anyone saw that happening, even if they weren't willing to give him a 10 year deal.

I haven't looked, but I would assume he can't be over 7-8 WAR in his time in LAA- all for the little cost of 240M.

[1908_Cubs]

On the topic of Pujols, I think this article (click here for link) is something everyone should read on the topic. For a few reasons;
1) The "Was Pujols really 32?" is pretty unfounded. There's no discussion of it that has any real proof or even compelling evidence. I agree with Dan on that. It's basically "Other players from the DR have been different ages, Pujols is from the DR, thus, he must be older". Which is spurious at best.

2) I don't think it's fair to connect a man to PED's when there have been no compelling evidence other than circumstance. Maybe he did them, maybe he didn't, but again why would he just stop using them once getting to LAA? Doesn't make sense.

3) Pujols's really didn't have this age progression in his profile. Guys who command the zone well tend to age more gracefully at the plate than Pujols did. Pujols...just didn't. He's got honestly one of the weirdest careers I can imagine. He was so elite in the first 10 years and the decline was so hard and long that it almost doesn't feel like the same dude.

I think many people try to explain away his career with "he must be older!" or "PEDs!" because they don't have any other answer. But baseball is weird. I think the answer here is that Pujols just didn't age the way we normally associate with players like Pujols. On top of that, unlike other stars, the team didn't come up with a mutual buyout to end it early, and Pujols wasn't going to leave money on the table, so it continued that way.

If you want another player who this is happening to, look no further than Miguel Cabrera. Another one of the absolute most feared hitters in baseball who...fell off a cliff. His happened in year 34. He's been worth .4 fWAR over his last 1,500 PA's as well, will probably continue being a replacement level player this year, too, at age 38. We don't really associate him with PED's or age concerns. He still has 2021, 2022, and 2023 left on his deal. There's good reason to think by the end of that contract, it will be similar in how we look back on Pujols.

[Bainsy]

again why would he just stop using them once getting to LAA? Doesn't make sense.

Maybe because he landed the DEAL.....No need once you get your money...
I don't know...But his decline was pretty fast and kind of stunning...