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  1. #4441
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    Nov 2011
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    Sounds like 2021 will be it for Albert Pujols.
    Screw sabermetics.

  2. #4442
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    Jul 2019
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    2,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    Sounds like 2021 will be it for Albert Pujols.
    Should have retired 3-4 years ago. How is he still getting AB's? Now it just looks like he's trying to run up his career stat totals.

  3. #4443
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    Jan 2006
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    13,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Should have retired 3-4 years ago. How is he still getting AB's? Now it just looks like he's trying to run up his career stat totals.
    His bank account would have been $70M lighter if he retired 3 years ago and another $30M lighter if he retired now rather than end of 2021. As much as he isnít a good Baseball player anymore, heís not an idiot.

  4. #4444
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBulls View Post
    His bank account would have been $70M lighter if he retired 3 years ago and another $30M lighter if he retired now rather than end of 2021. As much as he isnít a good Baseball player anymore, heís not an idiot.
    Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.

  5. #4445
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    58,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.
    Pujols has probably the most stark decline of any HoF player. Dan Szymborski (inventor of ZiPS) did a great breakdown of it in the spring. Basically, his decline was basically unprecedented for both the contract (they neither worked on a mutual buyout) and his play.

    His career was so weird.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

  6. #4446
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    13,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Thanks, that makes sense. The idiot is the GM that agreed to pay a player 30 mil when they're 41 years old.
    As much as Pujols was a great player as a Cardinal, he was also 32 years old when he started his 10 year contract as an Angel in 2012. That contract was bound to go to **** halfway through, let alone sooner. Absolutely nutty.

  7. #4447
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    8,511
    Pujols a great example of paying a player after his prime years, for past performance

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  8. #4448
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    Apr 2008
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    10,141
    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Pujols a great example of paying a player after his prime years, for past performance

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    Couple that with his real age being a question mark when he signed, it's a very bad deal.

  9. #4449
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
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    11
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Couple that with his real age being a question mark when he signed, it's a very bad deal.
    Is there any speculation about PED use with him?

  10. #4450
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by btd View Post
    Is there any speculation about PED use with him?
    Iím sure there has been speculation from some, but honestly I donít think heís a PED user.

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  11. #4451
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    Apr 2008
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    10,141
    Quote Originally Posted by btd View Post
    Is there any speculation about PED use with him?
    Although there's no way to prove it, in my opinion, it's a slam dunk that he did. Steroids followed LaRussa from Oak to Stl. I read that it was speculated that 2000 players were using during the steroid era. I think he started in his rookie year.

  12. #4452
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    Dec 2011
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    1,102
    Quote Originally Posted by JHBulls View Post
    As much as Pujols was a great player as a Cardinal, he was also 32 years old when he started his 10 year contract as an Angel in 2012. That contract was bound to go to **** halfway through, let alone sooner. Absolutely nutty.
    The Angels knew they were going to be underwater on the latter half of the deal. It's the same reasoning people always use with big pitcher contracts. The bad break was Pujols becoming unusable as a 1B/DH as quickly as he did. His first year was fine enough. He missed time the second year and rebounded a little bit the third year. But halfway through he became a sub-replacement level player. I don't think anyone saw that happening, even if they weren't willing to give him a 10 year deal.

  13. #4453
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
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    11
    Quote Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp View Post
    The Angels knew they were going to be underwater on the latter half of the deal. It's the same reasoning people always use with big pitcher contracts. The bad break was Pujols becoming unusable as a 1B/DH as quickly as he did. His first year was fine enough. He missed time the second year and rebounded a little bit the third year. But halfway through he became a sub-replacement level player. I don't think anyone saw that happening, even if they weren't willing to give him a 10 year deal.
    I haven't looked, but I would assume he can't be over 7-8 WAR in his time in LAA- all for the little cost of 240M.

  14. #4454
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    58,338
    On the topic of Pujols, I think this article (click here for link) is something everyone should read on the topic. For a few reasons;
    1) The "Was Pujols really 32?" is pretty unfounded. There's no discussion of it that has any real proof or even compelling evidence. I agree with Dan on that. It's basically "Other players from the DR have been different ages, Pujols is from the DR, thus, he must be older". Which is spurious at best.

    2) I don't think it's fair to connect a man to PED's when there have been no compelling evidence other than circumstance. Maybe he did them, maybe he didn't, but again why would he just stop using them once getting to LAA? Doesn't make sense.

    3) Pujols's really didn't have this age progression in his profile. Guys who command the zone well tend to age more gracefully at the plate than Pujols did. Pujols...just didn't. He's got honestly one of the weirdest careers I can imagine. He was so elite in the first 10 years and the decline was so hard and long that it almost doesn't feel like the same dude.

    I think many people try to explain away his career with "he must be older!" or "PEDs!" because they don't have any other answer. But baseball is weird. I think the answer here is that Pujols just didn't age the way we normally associate with players like Pujols. On top of that, unlike other stars, the team didn't come up with a mutual buyout to end it early, and Pujols wasn't going to leave money on the table, so it continued that way.

    If you want another player who this is happening to, look no further than Miguel Cabrera. Another one of the absolute most feared hitters in baseball who...fell off a cliff. His happened in year 34. He's been worth .4 fWAR over his last 1,500 PA's as well, will probably continue being a replacement level player this year, too, at age 38. We don't really associate him with PED's or age concerns. He still has 2021, 2022, and 2023 left on his deal. There's good reason to think by the end of that contract, it will be similar in how we look back on Pujols.

  15. #4455
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    1,476
    again why would he just stop using them once getting to LAA? Doesn't make sense.

    Maybe because he landed the DEAL.....No need once you get your money...
    I don't know...But his decline was pretty fast and kind of stunning...

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